1959 101 Color Chart

[Biba69]

phila3885, would it be possible for you to scan more of the German brochure copy you have with the much broader list of colors available? I'll add that it surprises me that the year '58 was included. To the best of my knowledge, that yes '59 was a transition year so one could have a 750 or 101 with a mixture of parts. However I thought all 58's were 750's.

My concern here is that I'm restoring a client's 750 '58 Spider Veloce. It both came to me in Celeste Blue and is documented to have been that color originally. I bloody hate pastel colors on Alfas, especially with early Ford Thunderbird blue on them. With a fair amount of arm twisting on my part I convinced my client to allow me to paint it AR501 (which I believe was very similar to Alfa Rosso or was exactly the same). My argument was (that I thought) this color only came on (Bertone) Sprints - but since it was an Alfa color, might not a buyer have insisted it be painted in Alfa Rosso?

However, if I have an Alfa brochure (I'd have it translated) that says in essence '58 Spider Veloce's were offered in Alfa Rosso, I'm home free. He is planning on showing the car.

Want to sell the brochure?

Biba

[phila3885]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biba69 phila3885, would it be possible for you to scan more of the German brochure copy you have with the much broader list of colors available? I'll add that it surprises me that the year '58 was included. To the best of my knowledge, that yes '59 was a transition year so one could have a 750 or 101 with a mixture of parts. However I thought all 58's were 750's. My concern here is that I'm restoring a client's 750 '58 Spider Veloce. It both came to me in Celeste Blue and is documented to have been that color originally. I bloody hate pastel colors on Alfas, especially with early Ford Thunderbird blue on them. With a fair amount of arm twisting on my part I convinced my client to allow me to paint it AR501 (which I believe was very similar to Alfa Rosso or was exactly the same). My argument was (that I thought) this color only came on (Bertone) Sprints - but since it was an Alfa color, might not a buyer have insisted it be painted in Alfa Rosso? However, if I have an Alfa brochure (I'd have it translated) that says in essence '58 Spider Veloce's were offered in Alfa Rosso, I'm home free. He is planning on showing the car. Want to sell the brochure? Biba

[AlfistiSA]

Hi Biba

There are quite a few Alfa reds, but AR 501 was a Bertone colour and only the Sprints were painted in this dark red.

The Spiders were painted in AR 514 which is Farina red, it's a tomato orangy colour in comparison to the dark red of the Sprints.

This is a poor picture (digitals don't like low ambient light), but it serves to illustrate the difference between Bertone AR 501 and Farina AR 514 Red.

Check out Christopher Boles Veloce Register site for paint code information:

ALFA ROMEO PAINT CODES

Ciao
Greig

[Biba69]

Phil, I already have the paint so that matching isn't my concern. However, I'll add that I would never have paint matched from a printed brochure. Apparently many of the paint books that automotive paint stores are getting these days are printed, as opposed to tipped on swatches of the actual paint. The old formulas, even if they have been updated, are next to worthless. The paint I have for the '58 Spider Veloce was matched from a tipped in swatch of AR501 in an European DuPont book.

Greig, always good to hear from you. Did you see that in the German brochure the Spider Veloce is included under Alfa Rosso? One can argue that Alfa Rosso and AR501 aren't the same thing, but show me a perfect swatch of each so I can compare side-by-side.

Quite frankly my client felt that if the 750 wasn't painted Celeste Blue, he wanted it painted the early Ferrari blood red. I argued that it should be painted an Alfa color available in '58 (and that Celeste Blue is in essence a 'cute' American color). We both agreed that AR514 is more than a bit common.

The enclosed photo is of a 1900. Phil, you don't think this color would look good on a 750 Spider?

Biba

[Biba69]

Phil, I already have the paint so that matching isn't my concern. However, I'll add that I would never have paint matched from a printed brochure. Apparently many of the paint books that automotive paint stores are getting these days are printed, as opposed to tipped on swatches of the actual paint. The old formulas, even if they have been updated, are next to worthless. The paint I have for the '58 Spider Veloce was matched from a tipped in swatch of AR501 in an European DuPont book.

Greig, always good to hear from you. Did you see that in the German brochure the Spider Veloce is included under Alfa Rosso? One can argue that Alfa Rosso and AR501 aren't the same thing, but show me a perfect swatch of each so I can compare side-by-side.

Quite frankly my client felt that if the 750 wasn't painted Celeste Blue, he wanted it painted the early Ferrari blood red. I argued that it should be painted an Alfa color available in '58 (and that Celeste Blue is in essence a 'cute' American color). We both agreed that AR514 is more than a bit common.

The enclosed photo is of a 1900. Phil, you don't think this color would look good on a 750 Spider?

Biba

[AlfistiSA]

Hi Biba

Ironically my last 5 Alfa purchases have all been resale red, courtesy of the previous owner - as long as the car is nicely restored, I enjoy seeing a variety of colours each of which compliments the car so nicely. I happen to like the pastel colours of the early cars - each to his own & at least there will be variety at the Alfa show here in SA.

In a role reversal, my '60 Spider is Bertone 501, whereas my '57 Sprint is Farina 514, both courtesy of previous owners. The Spider was originally Celeste 301 and the Sprint Nero 901. The Spider is too good to respray & I'm debating whether or not to keep the Sprint in Farina red but 750 Sprints look sooo nice in black. My Dad's Spider is going back to the original Celeste blue and if I had to respray my Spider I'd do her Azzuro Spacio

I'm sure the 750F is going to look stunning in 501 and the owner will win more prizes than Joe, given your level of restoration, I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product

Ciao
Greig

Here are some pictures for comparison, the red ones are mine, the blue ones are overseas cars

[alfazagato]

Biba,
Take your own counsel on this. If you prefer the 501 shade then that's OK. You are not, it appears, claiming any originality in this restoration so...if your client agrees, paint it any colour you want Farina red, Ferrari red or even Maserati red.
As an aside, I didn't like flat grey cars...I now have one. I was also not too happy with white as a colour on curvy shapes...I have a car in that colour too. So a celeste blue is not my taste....but next week tempt me!
For my money...black with a scarlet interior!

[phila3885]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biba69 Phil, I already have the paint so that matching isn't my concern. However, I'll add that I would never have paint matched from a printed brochure. Apparently many of the paint books that automotive paint stores are getting these days are printed, as opposed to tipped on swatches of the actual paint. The old formulas, even if they have been updated, are next to worthless. The paint I have for the '58 Spider Veloce was matched from a tipped in swatch of AR501 in an European DuPont book. Greig, always good to hear from you. Did you see that in the German brochure the Spider Veloce is included under Alfa Rosso? One can argue that Alfa Rosso and AR501 aren't the same thing, but show me a perfect swatch of each so I can compare side-by-side. Quite frankly my client felt that if the 750 wasn't painted Celeste Blue, he wanted it painted the early Ferrari blood red. I argued that it should be painted an Alfa color available in '58 (and that Celeste Blue is in essence a 'cute' American color). We both agreed that AR514 is more than a bit common. The enclosed photo is of a 1900. Phil, you don't think this color would look good on a 750 Spider? Biba

[Biba69]

Slightly darker battleship gray Spiders do look pretty cool, with the red interior when the top is down. Otherwise...

There is a lot of chrome and stainless on the Giulietta's. I like contrast. However the last car that went out the door was a white '69 Spider (see below). It was originally slightly creamy white. YUCK! However it had been repainted a much whiter white (sounds like a detergent commercial) and I actually had that paint matched.

Trust me on this everyone, but Pinninfarina was solely sucking up to tasteless Americans when they made, especially the front bumper with large overriders, way overkill...and of course extensively used Celeste - Ford Thunderbird/Cadalliac - Blue. There is a rumor that an entire boatload of Giulietta Spiders arrived and every one was Celeste Blue. Pinninfarina had made a bit of a mistake.

I'm neither a trendy nor traditional guy - though closer to the latter. However if a car is painted a sucky color - sucky being defined as not enhancing the lines/shape of a car - why inflict a sucky color on a poor defenseless, otherwise cool, well designed (except for the front bumper) car - because (whiny voice) that is the color it originally came in? Ralph Lauren likes black cars. His Bugatti Atlantic is black. It sure wasn't originally.

Biba