Seats rebuild Giulia 101 spider - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Seats rebuild Giulia 101 spider

Hi!

I took the spider seats apart, welded them and lowered them 1cm as we are quite tall and hopefully fit a bit better in the spider! Finally got them coated so now it is time to re upholster them!

Here some before pics: (not sure if it is still original, the foam is though I guess)






Here some after pics:



Rubber backplate between foam and steel


The tension is a bit out of this rubber; I guess they should be quite firm? Any advice on this?


My question:

The foam I bought is 1 piece glued together, however the trim should be pulled back through the foam, orginally towards a rubber kind of backplate which detoriated quite badly; is there a replacement or other way of putting it together? Somebody some advice?


Thanks!
Tom

Giulia super 2000 from 1971 as my Daily,In the garage; Duetto 1969 and Giulia spider 1963; https://www.facebook.com/Classic.Alfa.Giulia.spider.restoration/
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 04:41 AM
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Tom
Cicognani does offer a Gum Rubber Diaphragm, # 10040221 to replace the original component.
Two are needed in upholstering a pair of seats .. as the cost is high and the item is unseen, this vital part is often omitted.

The diaphragm is vital as it allowed for back support with allowance for movement. As pressure on the seat-back varies .. the diaphragm flexes and allows the seat to "breathe" - this is the reason for the tiny perforations in the rear panel of the upholstery.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 07:39 AM
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Were these or similar diaphragms used on the 750 and early 101 seats (with the outer tack strips and listing wire hooks)?
If so how were they attached?
There was no sign of them in the seats I have seen disassembled, but they had obviously been redone at least once before.
Joe
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-11-2017, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Were these or similar diaphragms used on the 750 and early 101 seats
Yes, they were once originally fitted to all 750 and 101 Spider seats.

Quote:
If so how were they attached?
Fine wires are laced to form a grid which is attached to the diaphragm. Then this is supported by heavier wire which:

In a 750 seat - is secured on the R/L sides by V-barbs that fold outward against the seat backrest.

In a 101 seat - wires are hog-ringed onto loops punched into the R/L sides of the seat backrest steel.

The rubber diaphragm forms a flexing inner backrest that supports the loading on the foam and padding beneath the upholstery without the rigidity of the steel frame.
Modern upholster's use a denser foam that looks great beneath the upholstery but it lacks the comfort and flexibility of the original design.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 06:57 AM
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GTD, thanks for the reply, but I am still unclear on the 750 installation.
The same barbs that anchor the diaphragm wires are subsequently used to retain the listing wires aren't they?
Does that mean the barbs are poked through the diaphragm?
I don't suppose anyone has a picture of this?
Joe
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 07:15 AM
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Tom,
I did not mean to hijack your thread, but I hoped someone more knowledgeable would answer your queries.
Anyway, for what it is worth, your foam will need to be separated into four sections. Is it really glued together as you stated, or is it molded in one piece?
The Elvezio blog has videos which show how their molded foam is cut apart prior to installation. I have seen molded foam from another supplier which gives less indication of where the cuts need to be made. Maybe you can post a clearer shot of your foam?
If your seat bottom straps are loose, they will need to be replaced. Search online for "Pirelli Webbing". This webbing needs to be stretched about 10% according to the suppliers, which is quite hard to do. I was only able to achieve about 7-8%, and I think that is marginal.
There are other types of webbing which are cheaper, but I have not tried them.
Hopefully you can reuse the old strap hardware, as I was able to do.
Joe
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 10:38 AM
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Woolies or Skiddaw in the UK have clips,plates,and Pirelli webbing,although both the black and tan Pirelli webbing can be searched for or found on ebay. George,is there anything special about the Cicognani diaphram (apart from it being moulded),or could it be made just using pure gum rubber sheet(discountrubberdirect)? If possible,what thickness would you use?
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 03:43 PM
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Cicognani molds the diaphragm with reinforcement (it's thicker) at the perimeter points of attachment.
It needs this reinforcement there, just as it needs to be thin enough overall to flex properly.
Certain Jaguar bucket seats used a synthetic rubber diaphragm in their construction. It has great steel rods molded into the perimeter onto which fasten steel hooks. Somewhat smaller overall that the Pirelli gum rubber item but they can be fitted to Alfa seats.
I find them to be too firm in comparison to original diaphragms - YMMV.

Joe - the attachment of the diaphragm to heavier wires on both 750 barbs and 101 loops is with hog rings clipped to the wire at the holes in the perimeter of the diaphragm.

Pirelli webbing is warmed with a heat gun when installing .. this allows for stretching.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 06:09 PM
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George,

The seats in my '64 Spider appeared to be untouched (except for torn vinyl, rock-hard foam and rusted seat pans) when I disassembled them last summer. The vinyl was stenciled Aprile 1964, wires rusted into dozens of pieces, but no natural rubber membrane to be found.

Are there any photos of the restoration process of these seats?

Ray

Oklahoma SNO Alfa Chapter Director
'64/66 Giulia Spider finally back in the garage and painted
'75 Olandase Blu Alfetta Sedan 2.0 & '88 Red Milano Verde; both long gone and dearly missed
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 05:19 AM
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Ray,
Elvezio Esposito have photos and videos on their blog, and on YouTube.

The earlier videos, now somewhat truncated, show the OE installation using listing wires and hog rings. The later one does away with the listing wits and uses adhesive only.
Not sure I would want to go that way.

Joe
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 06:06 PM
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Could someone with Giulia seats(adjustable backs)give me the correct dimensions of the small plates that the seatback bumpers rest on(or sell me one to copy)? Are they chrome plated steel? The PO made mine,which are obviously wrong and double ugly.Any help appreciated.Phil D
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 07:25 PM
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alphil,

Mine were a bit rusted. Cleaned with wire wheel and had them zinc plated. I forgot to straighten them, but will after this.

I cannot produce a technical drawing, but here are the measurements from the ones that I removed from my seats when I was restoring them.

Width - 1 1/8"
Height - 1 1/8"
L shaped lip - 1/2" deep?
Screw holes diameter 3/16"
Screw holes location:
5/8" up, 1/8" center-to-edge

Can't figure the radius of the curved edge; sorry.

Hope this helps,

Ray
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Oklahoma SNO Alfa Chapter Director
'64/66 Giulia Spider finally back in the garage and painted
'75 Olandase Blu Alfetta Sedan 2.0 & '88 Red Milano Verde; both long gone and dearly missed
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

Thanks all for all the replies! Very helpfull!

I Will take some pictures of the plates; I still got the originals but mine looked a bit more shiney so maybe chromed but will check this. Also I will check out the foam details!

Think I need to order Cicognani rubbers, are they supplied with all the metal hooks etc? or do I need to make up them myself?

best regards
Tom

Giulia super 2000 from 1971 as my Daily,In the garage; Duetto 1969 and Giulia spider 1963; https://www.facebook.com/Classic.Alfa.Giulia.spider.restoration/
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:41 AM
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101 seat backrest reinforcement plates

The reinforcement plates were originally stainless steel (inox).

The screws used for backrest adjustment were cadmium plated steel and originally had a hard rubber cap on the head that made contact with the stainless steel plate.
The rubber caps disappeared long before the (very limited) original warranty on the cars expired.

Pictured below is an original used reinforcement plate (on the left) and a re-pop that I've produced.
I used salvaged stainless steel, hence the line that appears on the re-pop.
I can supply a set of these, (4 total) each with two SS screws for $60. + postage.
They can also be made with new polished stainless steel for $100. + postage per set of four.
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Last edited by GTD; 02-15-2017 at 08:20 AM.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 10:14 AM
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Thanks to all who responded to the bumper plate information I asked for.I assume the thickness to be around 2mm(5/64",.078"?)or a little thicker? Screw size maybe #8 ? George,thanks for the offer,but I believe I can make my own plates,which I enjoy doing. FWIW,these Giulia seat bumpers were made with all parts from McMaster/Carr; M8x1.25 stainless threaded rod,M8x1.25 thin SS jam nuts(90710A120),and hard,M8x1.25 threaded bumpers,19mm dia.x16mm high(9546K216).I did have to modify the rubber bumpers,but that's not too difficult using a hand drill,or if you're lucky,a lathe,drill press,etc.,and files or sandpaper.I have no idea of how long these will last,but IMHO,easy enough to make new bumpers.
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