Giulia Spider 1962. Norwegian re-restoration.

[ESjaavik]

Patric, no they surely must have had some help to get where they are!

I believe what has happened is that the bumper have at some time hit something or been hit. So the whole tube support back to the frame is bent and now sloping down. It probably should be pointing straight forward. The holes in the frontplate must have been damaged from this. Then as a "repair" someone have just fixed the hole in the front plate without straightening the tube structure on the inside. It's a typical quick and cheap type repair.

What I can see is that the tube support is bent. I have to open up the holes in the front plate again, straighten the bent tubes and fill the resulting oblong holes at the bottom to make them round again but now higher up. That's the theory. I'll have to see if it's possible to make the tube structure new and get it up there and fixed to the frame.

[ESjaavik]

Here's an update on the last week. Last Monday this is how far I got before bedtime.



Maybe I should say a few words about how the piece was made.
First the lip was folded down. Then it was shrunk along the top. You can see the stipple marks from the shrinker. To propagate the shrink more evenly down to the lip it was rolled in the english wheel with a flat anvil (lower roller) and very low pressure. So low that a flat piece of the same thickness could easily slide sideways between wheel and anvil. Then I put a piece of paper under the outermost bearing of the anvil to make it very slightly slanted. Then I increased the pressure and rolled the tight side caused by the paper along the bend to stretch it. Finally the lip was slightly shrunk to get the correct curve. When shrinking ever so slightly as is required here, I don't put any pressure on the handle. I just flip it up&down just using the momentum of the handle. This results in almost no marking and a very good curve. If pressing down on the handle a series of fewer but sharper bends will be the result.

The shrinker mentioned is a Lancaster Shrinker (google that if you don't know what it is.)

After this, the piece was welded shut and straightened as before.

So it's on to the frame. Here you can see how the front corner pieces are made. A hammerform is made from two fibre boards cut to shape, and a piece of steel cut with enough oversize to create the lip (10mm). Then the lip is hammered down gradually over one of the fibre board edges using a small plastic mallet. This hammerform was also used to make the corners of the trunklid. These pictures show one "problem" that will occur when going around the bend. There will be too much metal when bent down around the corner. Try to do this with a piece of paper and you will understand.



Now start at the base of each of the tucks with a plastic "chisel". It's just a 30x50x5mm piece of hard plastic. Use a mallet on this piece of plastic and force the tuck out towards the open end and down against the hammerform. It will probably result in a new tuck popping up at another place so you have to go back & forth several times to get it down. Next picture shows how far I can take it with this hammerform. Had it been made from steel, all the tucks could have been taken out.



But as you see some will remain, and I will straighten these out over a curved dolly or some hard cylindric object ground smooth. So in place, this is how it looks.



The keen observer will also see that the edge of the frame is already in place. Things are coming together slowly but surely. And they all seems to fit very well together, so I'm happy so far.

[Gordon Raymond]

There are some very skilled body fabricators on my short list of talented people I know. Your corner lip fabrication adds you to that group Einar. If you look closely at the photo's I sent, you can see Alfa has done no better with the use if the panel press available to them at the time. FANTASTIC WORK! You should be very proud! Gordon Raymond

[concept 101]

Einar,

That´s a teriffic body work there, congratulations! What I was wondering is what did you do to prevent warping of the total surface of the trunk lid when welding all the pieces together? There´s a lot of heat building up there and the danger for warpage of the whole outer skin is never far away.

Thanks, Dennis

[ESjaavik]

Thanks guys! Flattery is always welcome.

Dennis, you are right, it will warp. There are 2 things to do then.
- Don't put in more heat than necessary. That's why I use TIG here.
- Take out the shrink as you go. That's done by grinding down any weld beads and hammering the weld against a dolly thus stretching it. The hammering must extend over the heat affected zone, it's recognized by the blue color. But it must be done with some care. Too much will stretch it, which also warps it. Your best tool here is your patience IMO.

If you're interested in this, you should go to Metal Meet Forums - Powered by vBulletin where you will find people with far more experience in this than I have.

However I do not recommend you cut up your trunklid as your first job.

[concept 101]

Einar,

Thanks for the tips, I´ll check out the Metal meet forum.

P.S. My trunk lid is fine, I just wanted to know for future jobs and as a general info.

Dennis

[ESjaavik]

So you were thinking nothing happens here?
Well it does, but I thought it would seem like a broken record as I went about doing the same thing to the frame as I did to the lid itself. It was actually somewhat more difficult as not only does it have to have correct shape, but it also have to fit exactly inside the lips of the lid with close enough tolerance to be spot welded. In practice it means a tight press fit with eaxtly following the corner curves in 3D. But anyway, now it's done.



And then more fun! Tearing out the "repaired" trunk floor.



In this picture it may not be easy to get the orientation, but it is taken from where the rear window would be and looking back.



And yesterday evening I stripped the rear left side from paint and 3-4Kg bondo! It came off in huge lumps up to 10mm thick. The lower side behind the door was collision damaged and just filled with bondo, sanded and painted! It was like tearing down a brick wall. I'll fill in with pictures later. They will also show the Frankenstein approach of wheelarch repair. There will be a lot of work there. I did anticipate this from seeing the old panel cut on the inside and the new doubled over it. I do only accept double panels where it was done by the factory. So the dumpster will have the repair pieces soon.

And nowhere have I seen wheelarches for this car for sale, so I suppose it will be the same procedure again. I have to convince a piece of steel sheet to look as close to a wheel arch as possible. It's been done before using hammers and tree stumps, so it must still be possible in 2008. If doing that is the best way of passing a sanity test I seriously doubt, but I don't plan on enrolling for such a test any time soon.

Seeing what I have, I am also very tempted to look closer at, or rather inside the sills. These are the backbone of a Spider more than on steel roof cars, so I don't want to drive around if they are made from bondo and paint.

If you're in a hurry, jump off this thread! The car will not be back on the road this year for sure.

[ESjaavik]

I wrote I could not find wheelarches. It seems I now may have.

Looking around in the dusty corners of this BB I found a pointer that led me to this:
Alfa Romeo 750 101 Roadster Body Panels

Can anyone tell me how correct the shape of these wheelarches are?
Anyone that used them and have a picture?

If they are not right, it's easier to start from a flat piece than a stamped one with the wrong shape. Minor adjustements to the crown of the panel or the inner lip can be done. But not correcting the outward facing "eyebrow".

Please chime in if you have used these, or know someone that did. If you don't want to post it here, email or PM me.

[alfa105_dk]

Hello Einar.
I have a set of the wheelarches from wolfsteel here in Copenhagen just a few hundred km's south of where you're living. Bought them together with the rear valence panel and had them sent from canada. And of course after paying airfreight and european taxes then ended up never using them because I later found complete fenders in italy. From what I remember the fitting was not great but acceptable.
You can also make the comparison to the original here.
In the very near future I'm beginning the restoration of my third spider, a very
original unmolested car never welded and still with the original paintwork (only replaced item is the trunklid...). You are most welcome.
best regards
alfa 105dk

[concept 101]

Hi alfa 105dk,

You wrote in your previous post you found complete fenders in Italy. Was it at Biondy´s or somewhere else? I might be in need of a new front left fender for my 101 Sprint and a good tips would come handy.

Greets from Malmö,
Dennis

[Gordon Raymond]

Einar,
I have seen Wolf's nose, and sill structural repair panels. The nose was a nice complete but unfinished stamping. It needed considerably more finish work to be exactly like the OEM nose. The sill structural members are an excellent duplication of the members inside the rocker panels that form the support and necessary rigidity for the floor pan. As my particular car had been raced, though it looked fine from the outside, the inner structural members, where they had been spot welded had not only pulled loose from one another, they had twisted as well causing the floor pan to become, rather floppy.()
There was also typical Alfa rust in there as the car was not intended to last 42 years, even with considerable care. I chose to make my own internal members, duplicating the design of the originals, but of heavier gauge steel, and leaving out the punched holes. My welds are full length, not spot welds, and with the repair complete, the car is as rigid, or more rigid then when new. I had added a total of 42 Lbs to the weight of the car with these stiffer sills. As they were also rust proofed at the time of assembly, they should easily last another 42 + years.
In short, Wolf steel makes good products, well worthy of consideration for restoration. The parts are not finished to allow the restorer to complete the job to as high a standard as time and money allow. Gordon Raymond

[ESjaavik]

@Alfa105_dk: I sent you a PM.

Here's a picture of the left side relieved from bondo. I think you can even see it have raised on the suspension after getting rid of the weight! ;-)



As soon as I have the car on a rigid frame support, that crap will be in the dumpster pretty fast! I'll rather look at a gaping hole than that piece of ....

Today I stripped the carbs and cooling system from the engine room. Before lifting out the engine I'll see if I can find an alternator that does not hit the steering box. No, I'm not that worried about original appearance as long as it's a part that will make the car a driver I can depend on bringing me out and home. The engine could also need a bit more left tilt to give some more room for air entering the Webers. The intake plenum have been cut and welded to clear the bulkhead. Probably not by the same guy that welded the body, because that aluminum weld looks well done.

The plan now is to put a frame made from 300x100mm U-beam under the car. I have the frame (from a bedsheet folding machine!). This frame will be set level using a machine spirit level. Onto this I will make supports to the suspension mount points to make sure they are straight. Some rough measurements indicate the previous "restorer" did not worry too much about this. Then it will be easy to lay a beam across this frame to measure different points at both sides and make sure they are the same. I don't have the original measurements, so being equal both sides and diagonally is the best I can do. If the sills need to come off, so be it. Although they look quite good seen from the cutout I made at the left rear end. I don't see much point in crossbracing if it's already crooked, and this frame will make it possible to determine this as well as correcting it if necessary.

Marco Fazio informs me that this car is not a 10123 as seen below. Somehow that does not surprize me either.

-------------------------------------
with reference to your request we are informing you as follows.

According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 370986 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulietta spider (101.03), manufactured on the 4th April 1962 and sold on the 11th April 1962 in Cosenza, Italy.

The body colour is sky blue (AR 301).
-------------------------------------

I found traces of blue on some places on the car, but it's a dark blue. So if it's a sky blue it must have been late in the evening. Or possibly early morning, I have no experience on how early morning sky looks.

[concept 101]

"and sold on the 11th April 1962 in Cosenza, Italy".

That´s interesting, Cosenza in Italy is the location where Elvezio´s upholstery shop is based.

Dennis

[alfa62fox]

Hello Einar,
I too, am restoring an early 1962 Giulia Spider to road-worthiness. You are a true artisan and thanks for sharing your information on your fine looking car. My dear wife is a descendant of the Gjerde clan of Alesund and Oslo, so I guess we have another small link as well.
Cheers, Matthew Fox

[ESjaavik]

As you may understand from my previous posts the body work on the car is what I focus on, so there have been no updates lately because all that happens is I dismantle parts. Then I run them through the parts washer, mark them and box them up for later retrieval. Some may think this is the easiest part, but I find that picking things apart is difficult and time consuming work. Then when I can see how it is made, putting it back together is easy. The engine+gearbox will not be washed before storage as it is my experience that an oily engine is more protected against oxidation than a cleaned one.

The bedsheet folding machine frame have been prepared for it's new duty and I'm getting close to putting the body onto it and start cutting to remove it's rigidity. It's going to be some nasty cutting of body parts going on, so you may not want to follow this.

A few months back I worried about the body not being straight, but after some planning, I don't fear that anymore. What worries me more is that more patch welding have been found. And it's covered with literally buckets of bondo. And that means my learning curve in metalshaping better be steep!

To straighten it, the plan is to put it onto the frame and then weaken the body enough that it will settle to straight by gravity. Then straightness will be re-checked and strength will be put back in. it sounds easy and if I can just figure out where the weakening have to take place, I think it will be. If not, there will just be more work than originally planned.