1750 engine into a Sprint 750B 1959

[Gordon Raymond]

Subtle,
Bob, can you send Chris some photo's of your mounts, header clearance and "weber tilt"? I think that will answer most, if not all his questions. The Sprint from the inside fender wells down is quite close to the 101 chassis we work with. Your 2L fit is a little tougher than the 1750. If Chris sees how a 2L fits, it will be somewhat easier for him to visualize future issues. Should be a nice swap. Gordon Raymond

Chris has sent some nice photos, and one picture can be worth a.... lot.... of words!

[Subtle]

Gordon--I'd like to--but I can't post pics.

If Chris looks at the CL catalogue he can search for the mounts --with the drop and tilt they are distinctive.

Can anyone out there comment on putting a 1750 or 2L into a Giulietta Sprint?

Perhaps there is more room.

[Gordon Raymond]

Subtle,
You know Bob, neither could I, until Patrick Hung dragged me screaming and shouting " NO! NO!" into the world of digital cameras and the not too hard BB technique. I used to do it with discs made from 35 mm, and I still use my 35 mm a lot, but for the strange and detailed stuff seen here, Patrick eventually got my attention. Chris, with his photos has done a great job of illustrating his problem. I wish I saved the photo's of my Sprint Speciale with it's 1750. That was a match made in heaven. The perfect power and torque for the SS! It had the same problems with mounts, and this was at least 30 years ago. I blocked the engine where I wanted it and fabricated mounts by cutting and welding a set of Veloce mounts until I got them right. That job took quite a while, but ended up looking quite like a factory fit. Wish I still had that one! Gordon Raymond

[Brad Baum]

My 750b has a 1750 installed on the al. cast mounts the car came with, as well as the std 750b rubber mounts from Re-Origonals. The fit is perfect. However, I''ve fitted a 1600 intact manifold, and downdraft Weber. The torque, and drivability is supurb, any more would be out of ballance with the other aspects of the car to my taste anyway.
One thing I need to re-engineer, is to provide a hidden torque reaction snubber. The 1750 moves around a lot on the 750b rubber mts. I could post specific pictures if anyone wants something.
Brad Baum
760b
Escondido, Ca

[Subtle]

Gordon

I am not a Luddite--merely inept when it comes to the computer. In December I bought a Panasonic Lumix digital camera with a Leica lens.

That is what the box it came in said.

The next step is to download pics into my laptop and, then, into the BB.

I already have some in my email, cd, and in other places in the computer, but have yet to find the combination of manipulations whereby I can put them in the BB.

[101 Alfa Mike]

Tacconi -
In Post #1 it looks like your engine mounts are reversed. In Post #6 they seem to be correct. Regardless, the mount with the extra hole goes on the intake side of the engine. A brace goes from there up to the Webers.

[Gordon Raymond]

Brad,
I have the only Giula Veloce Ausca spider with GTA running gear. I have used three systems to avoid broken mounts from engine torque. First, one of my Veloce mounts, is the long arm type with a rubber bumper that catches the stub frame rail. Second on the other frame rail is mounted the bumper that catches the Veloce pan high up where it's thick. Third the canister filter has been relocated and replaced by a spin on type, so the old canister cannot be whacked off by the frame rail. These three fixes were done 40+ years ago, and kept the GTA engine from breaking mounts in racing, though I doubt any one, alone, would work as well. These were used as they were all Alfa parts, available at the time. Fortunately the GTA engine requires no relocation in the chassis. The 1750 engine swap has always been a favorite of mine in these chassis, either tuned or stock. I would be interested in photo's of your solutions. Gordon Raymond

[Tacconi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Baum My 750b has a 1750 installed on the al. cast mounts the car came with, as well as the std 750b rubber mounts from Re-Origonals. The fit is perfect. However, I''ve fitted a 1600 intact manifold, and downdraft Weber. The torque, and drivability is supurb, any more would be out of ballance with the other aspects of the car to my taste anyway. One thing I need to re-engineer, is to provide a hidden torque reaction snubber. The 1750 moves around a lot on the 750b rubber mts. I could post specific pictures if anyone wants something. Brad Baum 760b Escondido, Ca

[Tacconi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101 Alfa Mike Tacconi - In Post #1 it looks like your engine mounts are reversed. In Post #6 they seem to be correct. Regardless, the mount with the extra hole goes on the intake side of the engine. A brace goes from there up to the Webers.

[Tacconi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Raymond Brad, I have the only Giula Veloce Ausca spider with GTA running gear. I have used three systems to avoid broken mounts from engine torque. First, one of my Veloce mounts, is the long arm type with a rubber bumper that catches the stub frame rail. Second on the other frame rail is mounted the bumper that catches the Veloce pan high up where it's thick. Third the canister filter has been relocated and replaced by a spin on type, so the old canister cannot be whacked off by the frame rail. These three fixes were done 40+ years ago, and kept the GTA engine from breaking mounts in racing, though I doubt any one, alone, would work as well. These were used as they were all Alfa parts, available at the time. Fortunately the GTA engine requires no relocation in the chassis. The 1750 engine swap has always been a favorite of mine in these chassis, either tuned or stock. I would be interested in photo's of your solutions. Gordon Raymond

[Alfajay]

Tacconi had asked: "Ok so the 1600 105 engine is smaller outside?"

No, all 4 cylinder Alfa engines are the same width in the area of the bellhousing. So, I find it puzzling that your 1750 is interfering with the brake master cylinder. Are you sure the engine is located properly left-right?

The 1300 and 1600 Alfas used a smaller flywheel than did the 1750 and 2000's, so it wouldn't have been surprising if the bellhousings had been larger on the later/larger engines. But, they aren't. I took a sheetmetal block-bellhousing spacer from a 2L, and laid it on a 1600 bellhousing - all of the mounting holes line up.

On my 101 Giulia, with its original 1600 engine, the bolts holding the master cylinder do come very close to the side of the bellhousing. I am using normale mounts and cast-iron headers on my car, so my engine is not tilted toward the steering column & master cylinder as it would be on a veloce.

I have written before that people building "abnormales", might consider locating the engine in the normale position, and using some sort of an air filter that doesn't require the engine to be tilted toward the steering column. This simplifies many things. On my dual-Weber Giulia, I am using two, cut-down Weiand air filters. They are noisy, but they fit easily. This also allowed me to retain the cast iron manifolds (not that these are better, but I didn't have any veloce manifolds available), and provided more room between the block and steering box to install an alternator.

[AlfistiSA]

Gents

Years ago an old Alfa Tech told me that the engine mountings are not engine specific, but rather car specific.

Brad's post bears this out, he was able to fit in the 1750 without any hassles, BUT he used the original engine mountings.

I've got a whole bunch of mountings, there must be 5 different lengths for the LHS in my stash & at least 2 others in a friend's stash. When we fitted a 1600 to his 101 Spider, we sat with all the mountings that we had, until we came up with a combination which worked.

My 0.02c worth

Ciao
Greig

[Tacconi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfajay Tacconi had asked: "Ok so the 1600 105 engine is smaller outside?" No, all 4 cylinder Alfa engines are the same width in the area of the bellhousing. So, I find it puzzling that your 1750 is interfering with the brake master cylinder. Are you sure the engine is located properly left-right? The 1300 and 1600 Alfas used a smaller flywheel than did the 1750 and 2000's, so it wouldn't have been surprising if the bellhousings had been larger on the later/larger engines. But, they aren't. I took a sheetmetal block-bellhousing spacer from a 2L, and laid it on a 1600 bellhousing - all of the mounting holes line up. On my 101 Giulia, with its original 1600 engine, the bolts holding the master cylinder do come very close to the side of the bellhousing. I am using normale mounts and cast-iron headers on my car, so my engine is not tilted toward the steering column & master cylinder as it would be on a veloce. I have written before that people building "abnormales", might consider locating the engine in the normale position, and using some sort of an air filter that doesn't require the engine to be tilted toward the steering column. This simplifies many things. On my dual-Weber Giulia, I am using two, cut-down Weiand air filters. They are noisy, but they fit easily. This also allowed me to retain the cast iron manifolds (not that these are better, but I didn't have any veloce manifolds available).

[Alfajay]

Tacconi had asked: "If I had have a set of normal engine mounts, would the engine be located more over to the carburator side?"

My understanding is "no", though it would be great if people with more experience would chime in here.

My sense is that both normale and veloce mounts keep the crankshaft centerline at the same place - they'd have to to avoid putting a kink in the driveline. But, the veloce mounts rotate the engine around its crankshaft toward the steering column - this provides space for the airbox to fit on the sidedraft carburetors. It also makes it necessary to use tubular headers, which hug the side of the block more tightly.

Since it looks like your block-mastercylinder clearance is pretty much at the elevation of the crankshaft centerline, it is difficult to see how rotating the engine would bring it closer to the MC. But, I don't have a better explanation.

[101 Alfa Mike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfajay