Giulietta/Giulia Spider Register

[pathung]

I have your car noted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subtle Pat My Spider is a 1962--Graphite Grey with the Red interior. Serial # AR370011 the engine number was AR00112*13065 I'll post the number of the 2 L on the next opportunity.

[yvesmontreal]

Two cars I've owned:
1495 03312 sold new in Montreal, 1959
Bought as basket case in 1980, sold in 1982, never restored by next owner, believed scrapped after owner's death in 2003.
370075 interim 1300 imported from US circa 1984 with 750 engine
Bought in 1985 in Toronto, installed 105 1300, refurbished and sold in 1989;
believed still owned by purchaser, recent report car was sitting in his backyard in Montreal.
Car was originally Farina blue, repainted Alfa (not Farina) red.

Edit: just dug out letter from Alfa stating build date: January 9, 1958.

[alfa105_dk]

Hello Patrick.
I have three cars for your register: I've included the names of the latest prevoius owners if somebody wants to track their cars sold in tears:

1965 101.23 spider Vin no AR392017, restored, red/black. Bought in california in 2000 (latest registration in us 1999 4BL021, owner Nick Muto) .

1963 101.23 spider Vin no AR372437, unrestored, original, white/red. Bought in california in 2000 (latest registration i us 1975 898BHF, owner Arnold David Charles) .

1962 101.xx spider Vin no AR370213 restored, red/black. Bought in sandton, south africa in 1993 (latest registration i sa 1993 PPX850T, owner Mark Beekhuisen).
(modelplate is missing and I was told it was an interim car, 101 chassis with giuletta specs, assempled in SA.) Not sure thoug. original engine was not with the car, but it has giulietta hood/bonnet.

The years of manufacture is according to the ownership certificates and might be wrong. All cars are in my ownership in Denmark, Europe.

best regards,
alfa105 dk

[yvesmontreal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfa105_dk 1962 101.xx spider Vin no AR370213 restored, red/black. Bought in sandton, south africa in 1993 (latest registration i sa 1993 PPX850T, owner Mark Beekhuisen). (modelplate is missing and I was told it was an interim car, 101 chassis with giuletta specs, assempled in SA.) Not sure thoug. original engine was not with the car, but it has giulietta hood/bonnet. best regards, alfa105 dk

[yvesmontreal]

Oh yes... another Spider that passed in my hands, in a way, was 1495 00311.

This car was parted out here in Montreal in the early 80's. I ended up with some of the parts, and in one box I found the serial number plate which I still have.

The type number is 750G. A Spider monoposto. I did see the body shell beofre it was scrapped, and yes, it had a G stamped above the serial number where the F usually was. We had no clue back then as to what it meant.

In case you're getting concerned that Montreal is a dead end for Giuliettas, our parts supplier, Remo, has owned 1495 11732 for over 30 years. This very original, Bianco Spino 101 Veloce is in the middle of a complete restoration.

[rcess]

With respect to the interim Giulietta Spiders, I own chassis number 370208, and there are some interesting aspects concerning the chassis number range 370001 to 371096. Yes, Fusi is incorrect in stating these are Giulia Spiders; they are Giuliettas. In their chapter covering Giulietta Spiders, d’Amico and Tabucci state on page 419 that: “The last batch of cars was prepared in 1962 using the bodyshell shared with the Giulia Spider and numbered from 370001 to 371096.” This is consistent with “Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider” edited by G. Nada (page 92), except here the chassis number range is given as 370001 to 371095. And Archivio Storico Alfa Romeo has informed me that 370208 is a Giulietta Spider manufactured on January 30, 1962, and sold to Hoffman Motors on January 31, 1962.

One Giulietta/Giulia bodyshell difference is that all Giulietta Spiders had a third air intake used by the Veloces; if the car was not a Veloce, this intake was covered by a block-off plate. When the Giulia Spiders were introduced, there was no plan to include a Veloce model, and thus the Giulia bodyshells did not have the third air intake, and this allowed the voltage regulator and the two relays to be moved forward so that the Giulia air cleaner could be mounted to the sheet metal on the right side of the engine compartment. In fact my car has the captured nuts in the sheet metal for mounting the Giulia air cleaner, but since it is a Giulietta it does not have this air cleaner.

The large taillights are commonly associated with the Giulia Spiders, but that is not correct. They were incorporated into the Giuliettas in July 1961, along with several other changes such as the inclusion of the cigar lighter and ashtray, as well as the stainless steel border around the rear of the cockpit.

[Gordon Raymond]

Sounds like a very interesting car Bob, You should give us some photo's of the odd details, if you can, so those of us interested in the history of these cars can learn something.
Gordon Raymond

[Subtle]

Bob and Gordon

My Spider, AR370011, had the tacked-in plate on the intake potentially for a 1300 Veloce model.

This, I had removed in order to install an intake similar to the Giulia Veloce, with the filter cannister mounted on the exhaust side.

With the 2 L, there was no room to mount a 1300 Veloce air can on the fire wall.


Bob

[velocedoc]

Bob, this information about the last 750 bodies is very interesting information that I never knew about. Thank you for sharing this. Someone might say this is more information to "muddy the water" about the differences between the 750 and 101 chassis during the transition period.

Yves, I would like to know the numbers for the G model and the car that Remo has for the Veloce Register. You can send me a private message.

[rcess]

Gordon,
Nothing really profound to photograph. The engine compartment, with the voltage regulator and relays moved forward, looks just like a Giulia engine compartment but with a Giulietta air cleaner. Production of these interim cars began in January 1962. The other changes (large tail lights, etc.) were introduced in July 1961 and were part of the evolution of the Giulietta Spider.

Christopher,
The 370001 to 371096 cars refer to the Giulietta/Giulia transition, not the 750/101 transition.

What got me interested in all this is that my car (370208, a 1962 Giulietta Spider) was originally registered as a 1963 Giulia Spider. As was the custom at the time, cars were often registered using the year when they were sold rather than the year of the model, which would explain 1963 rather than the correct 1962. But it would have been awkward to register the car as a 1963 Giulietta Spider, since Giulietta Spider production ceased in mid 1962, so there were no 1963 Giulietta Spiders. That it was registered as a 1963 Giulia is consistent with page 14 of Pat Braden's "Alfa Romeo All-alloy Twin Cam Companion 1954-1994", in which it is stated: "According to Dave Mericle, when ARI took over Max Hoffman's remaining stock of Alfas, they were directed by Alfa management in Italy to refurbish some cars to Giulia specifications. As a result, some 101-series Giuliettas ended up with Giulia gauges and hood scoops." This plausibly explains why my car has a Giulia hood scoop, and the fact that the engine hood has no Pinninfarina body number stamped on it means it was a factory-replacement part.

So, it seems reasonable that ARI originally registered 370208 has a 1963 Giulia Spider, whereas it is actually a 1962 Giulietta Spider as confirmed by Archivio Storico Alfa Romeo. It took me five years to restore this car and seven years to understand it.

[Gordon Raymond]

Hi Bob,
My car is at the other end of the scale, a Giulia Veloce 1600, built in '65, sold and titled as a '66 with some of the first Duetto's. It also has some strange features. The photo's from you would be the drilled and threaded holes in the left fender well for the later Veloce air cleaner, hood, gauges and general engine compartment layout. Most of us are aware of the tail lights, but thats a good one as well as any badges of lack of them on the trunk lid. The PF numbers, again, or lack of same, on the trunk floor, trunk lid, right trunk fender gutter and hood. Being a senior as well as the owner of my car from new 43 years ago, makes the physical development of these cars equally interesting to me as well. I have seen several cars like yours, but was not immediately aware of the extra underhood holes, Veloce air pickups with blocked holes, and other details. Thanks, Gordon Raymond

[ESjaavik]

I don't think I entered here before, so here's the details:

-------------------------------------
with reference to your request we are informing you as follows.

According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 370986 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulietta spider (101.03), manufactured on the 4th April 1962 and sold on the 11th April 1962 in Cosenza, Italy.

The body colour is sky blue (AR 301).
-------------------------------------

Not much original on this car any more. It's going to be a nice car for driving. It's well beyond the matching numbers stage. But I'll try to make it a nice looking car within what would pass as mods from it's age + 10 years. And I'll try to do everything in a way that if the right parts find my way, it can be brought closer to the original state.

[pathung]

Your information's been added to the register, yvesmontreal and Einar. Thanks.

[Steve O]

Pat,
First, thanks for doing a great job creating and maintaining this register!
Second, I finally asked Archivio Storico about my car, AR 1495 01878, and discovered it was built as a Veloce on 26 April 1957, (sold May 10th to Hoffman Motor Car Co.) It was originally supplied as white with black interior.
Best regards,

[pathung]

Thanks, Steve; am having it posted right now.

How are you holding up since selling your very pretty Sprint?