Opinions on 1962 Giulietta in Hemmings?

[frjen]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to buy a Guilietta/Giulia spider and have found a couple within a few miles from my house in NY. I went and looked at this one today:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...ta/467508.html

It is a 1962, one owner car with a stack of documentation to document its originality. An engine rebuild about a decade ago but they didn't document the mileage. The car was from Wisconsin originally. Everything appeared to be original including interior, glass, body panels, etc. There was no visible rust and no visible body work. Undercarriage was greasy when the car was up on a lift but overall also looked good.

The paint is original but is faded and had some imperfections from past touchups - I'd say 70% original paint, other 30% of various touchups mostly on door panels. Paint looks pretty thin so it may buff to a decent shine but not perfect.

Car ran well once warmed up, felt very solid going down the road, no gear grinding, nothing funny from the gauges, turned and stopped fairly well.

So....the guy is asking for $29k and said it is somewhat negotiable. He bought the car off ebay about 8 months ago so I can't figure out what he paid for it. Considering the originality, documentation, and 1-owner status, would you say this is a fair price. I would essentially drive the car as is and would try not to do any major restoration since a car is only original once, but am still wondering if price is fair since it seems a bit high to me.

Thanks for your 2 cents,

Frank

[SeekGTV]

If he bought it of e-bay 8 months ago it isn't a one owner car anymore. Maybe that in itself could be a bargining chip for you?

I would surely question a seller that bought a car on e-bay and is selling it soon after. I think I'd have a qualified mechanic check it out.

[AlfaDuc]

Having driven in Wisconsin winters, it's not easy to imagine a '60's Alfa having no rust if it was driven there for even one winter. Being skeptical by nature, I would have a professional appraiser confirm the "no rust" claim at the very least. And for $29k, I would expect a no problems, no repairs needed car. That's a top price. On the other hand, being the owner of a fully restored '62 Sprint, I wish the market WAS that high
Jim

[Peter]

29K seems high for this car. You should be able to get a better one for that kind of money

[Andrew]

From the look of it, it certainly needs paint, which for a good job can easily run upwards from $5000 to whatever you care to pay. Might be a great car, and I don't at all mind patina, but the price has to be reflective of it.

Andrew

[Andrew Schank]

$29,000 should get you a show quailty turn key car or very close, not something needing paint with a greasy underbody. It hasn't gotten to this point yet on these cars, has it?

By the way, quality paint & bodywork can cost way more than $5000, especially if you are paying someone to have the car taken fully apart, & put it back together. Quite often, patched up rust or poorly repaired collision damage is found as well. Sounds like the person paid too much, got less than they expected, and now is trying to get out from under it.

[phila3885]

Having just bought a 62 Sprint that was advertised as *possibly* original paint, I can almost guarantee that:
The car has been repainted at least once, and that repaint *may* now look old, cracked and "original"
The car probably has had some damage/rust that has been repaired in the past, perhaps expertly, perhaps not.
Rust can be found under a decent-looking exterior, usually hidden by gobs of bondo. A magnet can determine if there are thick bondo repairs.
The only cars that survive 45+ years without the above problems are Ferraris that were never driven, by owners who stored them in climate-controlled garages and never drove them in winter/rain. Alfas tended to be daily transportation early in their lives.
Just my observations based on a recent purchase. Good luck!

[Alfajay]

Frjen:

Well, by now, you have probably bought the thing - argued the guy down to $28.5 - and are happy with your purchase. Prices for all vintage cars have gone up in the past year, so maybe the seller's asking price represents the current market, and perhaps we old BB'ers are out of touch. Certainly, there are a greater supply of older cars here on the left coast, so while I might say "hrrmph, a 101 normale shouldn't cost over four figures", that isn't to say that I could buy an equivalent car for that - especially in New York!

Still, a few things concern me:
- Yea, why IS the guy selling it so quickly after buying it on ebay? Might he have overpaid for it, and is now trying to get back what he paid + his shipping expense?
- It is a normale, which isn't a bad thing, but all else being equal, veloces are worth more
- The engine rebuild was done long enough ago to not really contribute that much toward the selling price
- Make very sure it doesn't have any other needs. Others have mentioned rust. Re-doing the brakes on these cars can also chew up some parts & labor.

But, hey, after all that, what's a few grand? It's summer, you aren't getting any younger, and these ARE fun cars to drive. If you find a lower-priced car in October, it may not be a better value overall. My advice - if you haven't bought it already - is to bargain hard, and if it falls through, then it just wasn't meant to be.

Regards

[alfazagato]

I am totally swayed by a good looking Spyder, and this is one. Do you like it, and that is the main question? I have bought basket cases and mint cars and in the end there is very little difference in what I have had to spend to get them to a standard. A mint car with no mileage needs brake, transmission, engine seal replacements and a general overhaul too before you drive it. By the time you have stripped things down you usually have to make repairs to bodywork etc. I accept that the rust may well be attended to previously but there is always something. Give me one with some mileage...at least you know it goes and can test it.
Yes, you must get someone to look underneath and check the usual points for problems but be prepared to have some somewhere.
Good luck and enjoy the car if you like it...drive the door handles off it! That's what they were designed for and what they respond to.

[Italiar79]

If you can still buy this car, I say go for it, as long as it is Rust and Accident free. Car values continue to climb steadily, and for this number, I think some people may be out of touch with what a solid Alfa, or any vintage collector car, can bring these days. This is especially true with some of the vintage car auctions in Pebble Beach that I attend every August. This car would most likely bring $30,000 in a heartbeat. For those who say, "it is only a normale", that's why the Veloces bring $40,000+ for a nice example at the same venue. I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, just simply stating that times are a changin' my friends. Alfas are WAY too inexpensive for what they are, and I know of a very nice Giulietta Spider Racecar that is expected to go for $75-$100k in August during race weekend. When I bought my 356 Roadster five years ago, I never expected the values to be where they are today, and I think Alfas will do the same very shortly.

[frjen]

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I never did buy the car....suffering from "analysis paralysis" and then just got too busy at work to really focus on this. I'm still thinking about it, though the car is now on ebay, so we'll see where it goes.

Frank

[scylla6]

Hi, I'm in NW CT and would be happy to go look at the car with you. Not an expert but just know cars and love alfas. Just bought a spider myself.
Tom

[alfagtv74]

there is a very nice original one on ebay... i am restoring one myself, and believe me if you're doing a good job you wouldn't get any change out of 29k

[AlfaDuc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfagtv74 there is a very nice original one on ebay... i am restoring one myself, and believe me if you're doing a good job you wouldn't get any change out of 29k

[Alfajay]

I agree with all of the facts that Italiar79, Alfaduc, and others cite, but don't agree with the conclusions they draw. Some further thoughts...

Sure, you can't restore any car, and certainly not a Giulietta, for $29,000. But that is NOT to say that every restored Giulietta is worth > $29K. Cars regularly sell for less than the restoration price - hence the old adage that it is smarter to buy one done than buy a basket case.

OK, so cars sell at the Pebble Beach auctions for silly money. There is an entire magazine devoted to reporting on this. But, I wouldn't conclude from that one datapoint that frjen won't be able to find a drivable Giuletta for a price in the high teens - low twenties. Sales on Craigslist, ebay, and other venues tend to result in more reasonable prices - the buyers aren't inebrieted and the buyers & sellers aren't paying big commissions.

Yea, collector car prices have risen dramaticly over the past several years. Even lowly Alfas have been touched by this trend. But, will the trend continue? I have no idea, but consider this: The stock market is currently hitting new highs - are you loading up on more shares since it will no doubt go higher? How are the real estate investments you made in 2005 doing? Trends seldom last forever.

Without having inspected the Hemmings car, I can't say that it's worth any specific price - $29,000 may be very fair. My advise to frjen is to inspect the car thoroughly, and use any big negatives in the inspection report to negotiate the price down.