Install of a 2 L Into The Giulietta Spider

[Alfajay]

Gordon Raymond had asked: "If you are using an earlier pump set up for the mechanical tach drive, how are you driving it from a 2 L? Has the intermediate sprocket been swapped out to an earlier one with the tach drive gear on the end, or have you pulled the gear from an earlier mechanical tach intermediate sprocket and added it to the 2 L sprocket to allow an earlier water pump?"

Gordon - Alfa put the mechanical tach drive into its engines well into the 2L era. So, most used 2L engines around have the capability to support a 101 tach - certainly all 2L's from the Spica era.

I guess you are saying that the later engines - those from cars with electric tachs - lack the worm gear on the end of the 2:1 reduction gear between the upper and lower timing chains. And, have a block-off plate on the waterpump where the tach drive used to go. But, an enterprising Alfisti could use parts off an older car to restore mechanical tach operation.

Fans - I would try to find an electric that fits in front of the radiator. Even if its diameter is less than the mechanically-driven fan, it still might move more air than a skinny blade mech fan with no shroud. As long as the 101 radiator has been re-cored with a heavy-duty core, it should cool the 2L pretty well without a lot of airflow. And, you only need a fan when the car is standing still - if you never stop, you don't need one!

[Gordon Raymond]

You are right, of course Jay, but I understood from some earlier post that Subtle had used an electric fan, and assumed this was also a late 2 L. I have been using the skinny blade euro fan on my GTA engine in place of the cut down original style. The cut down draws less power at high rpm, but the skinny euro fan cools better at low engine speeds. The biggest problem with the skinny fan is in it's design. It is supposed to flatten out and draw less power at high engine speeds than the normal square bladed fan, but it's flexing, it seems, would also make it more likely to blow up when it ages.
My cut down fan doesn't draw much air at any speed, but these little ones don't blow up unless improperly tightened down, cracking them invisibly, at the hub.
The electric fan in front of the radiator, solves all these problems, allowing no mechanical fan. I'm just not sure exactly what Subtle is trying to fit where. I'll have to give him a call.

[Subtle]

Usually Andy is good at finding ways to change things, but he has a number of projects going. I put the press on him this week because we will be driving up into the Interior for a longish weekend.

The number one reason for going electric is to end the whirring noise from the fan when revved up.

The second, of course, is the gain in performance.

The fan from C/L measures 3.25 " thick, and it seemed that there was 3 inches of room. So I figured tilting the rad more to the vertical would make enough room.

Can't do it this week, but perhaps the rad could be redone with a thinner more modern core, and as Gordon points out--a different pully may provide some room.

Don't want to quit on this yet.

[Alleggerita]

SPAL makes pusher and puller fans including slim-line ones that are 2.05" thick. They come in all different diameters including 9, 10, 11, 12 etc. Yes, the slim-line does move less cfm.

[Subtle]

The high-output starter from Max Banks has been installed.

Some may recall that on the Saturday morning of the Monte Shelton Rally that with 49 F overnight on the Oregon Coast there was a starting problem.

Battery was good, and the 1600 starter had been rebuilt, but it could not turn the 2 L over quickly enough to fire. A start with about five pushers was required until someone noticed that the hand brake was on --a little. Pictures were circulated.

The new starter required some machining of the outer case to clear something down there, and some flat-head bolts rather than the allen head.

Although rebuilt, the 1600 starter was getting almost hopeless--even at 60 F. The new one spins over real fast, and starts the engine instantly.

[Subtle]

Picked up a dozen of the alloy replica SZ wheels at UPS yesterday.

Chris Robinson had them made up and they will soon be enhancing Gio's Sprint Speciale, Mikes's well-prepared 101 Sprint and my Spider.

These are 15 X 5 and look very good. --inside as well.

[Alfar7]

Bob`s not so "Subtle"" Carbon Fiber LSD clutches compared to stock LSD clutches...
Specially splined 750 axles

[Gordon Raymond]

Richard,
Where did you find those? They seem like the final answer to clutch glazing. Does everyone but me know about these? Well... in all fairness, I do deal with all that old stuff, but those are very nice. Seems like anyone wanting to put original "grippage" back in the stock LS unit would go for those!

[pathung]

Carbon fiber grips better than the old-style (asbestos?) material? Learning something new here. It seems CF is being used for brake pads on road cars nowadays as well, or am I hallucinating?

[Alfar7]

I will never tell!
But FYI Carbon Fiber`s coefficient of friction is lower than it`s metalic plate part in the LSD.

And for the same reason, it is not as good as a typical clutch lining. It will last longer, but if slippage is a problem the metal plates it works on will warp and quickly become worthless. (it does not dissipate heat)

It`s all about the full package.

The LSD for race use requires biased ramp rates to lock effectively. They are much more predictable in the rain and slippery conditions. But they are all built & gone...

[Gordon Raymond]

Subtle, Bob, asked me if I could move the contents of an e- mail to this thread. He has had some difficulty fitting some reproduction TZ wheels to his spider as the center holes are too small to fit over the rear half shaft stubs, the offset is off by about 3 mm, and the wheels inside web touches the finned drums. So here is an attempt!

This has come up a few times with any alloy aftermarket wheels and
Alfa's. Here's the trick and reason. The hole in the center of the
wheel is supposed to center the wheels spider on the lugs. This hole
must be reasonably tight over the axle stub, just as it is with the
steel wheels. When manufactured, the lug holed are drilled, actually
milled, using this hole as the wheel "true center" reference.
If the center hole is simply opened up, it may not act as the wheels
"true center" on the axle or studs. This can cause radial cracks to
develop from the lug holes.
The solution is equally simple. Unfortunately for me, I have to
drive to my friend John's shop near Indianapolis for the fix. He has
a nice big Bridgeport mill, with a rotary table. The wheel is mounted
on the table outside face down, centered on the "true center". Then
with the mill, the hole is opened up to the correct size for a slip
fit on the axle stub. Any included angles on the outside (wheel
inside) of the center hole can also be added with this set up.
FINALLY, if the wheel spider needs to be thinned for offset, or the
inside of the wheel web opened up to clear the drums, NOW is the
time. All light alloy wheels (not necessarily pure magnesium race
wheels) have plenty of "meat" to them for 3 / 5 mm cuts in these
areas. Remember, the light alloy can flex some in use, where as the
Magnesium cast wheel cannot. This, I have found, to be a very safe
modification. I have never had a light alloy break or even crack
after this modification.
Finally, once set up to do one, the mill operator can do 4 or 5 quite
easily, allowing them to be all the same, and clear fender lips!

[Gordon Raymond]

Ah! Found this photo. This is a "new" current manufacture Minilite wheel from GB that was supposed to be identical to the four magnesium wheels on my car. Well.. not quite. I ordered it in light alloy rather than magnesium. This car never came with a spare, or the hoop to hold it, just the spare platform brace, and bolt hole.
The "new" alloy had slightly more offset, the tapered seat insert for lug nuts, and the big problem, the inside edges of the webs did not clear the caliper for the front discs. The whole wheel was made to exactly match the other four old magnesium Minilites, in about 30 minutes on the rotary table under a Bridgeport mill. An easy job.

[alfazagato]

Subtle, Bob, where you trying to fit the Robinson rims to a LS rear axle? I think you will find that the flange on the non-LS axles is slightly smaller and the original wheels were designed for that sized half shaft. Why they should hit the finned drums is a mystery.

[Subtle]

Gio's 1300 SS does not have a lsd and the wheel needed machining to fit the stub axle at the rear--or, as Gio did--used a 3mm spacer.

This removes the centering function of the stubb.

Haven't tryed to instal mine yet.

But I did see the inside of Gio's wheel and the paint had been scuffed by the outer fins. So, perhaps the tollerances did not include the thickness of the paint. Before ordering I talked to Chris and was very clear that they had to fit the big brake set up --front and back.

This is having to do more work than I expected.