Install of a 2 L Into The Giulietta Spider

[pathung]

I like your attitude towards the Escalade! I feel like an elf whenever I drive next to one in any of my Alfas, but I squirt around them easily enough.

I have no 2L to stuff into my Giulia Spider, but I'll see what I can do with my dual-carb 1600 to make it more peppy - some higher-lift cams maybe, or even shave the head a little... what else? Veloce headers are in order, I believe, to fit the carbs in the engine compartment, due to custom engine mounts from Centerline. This is the really fun part in building a car, it seems.

[Subtle]

Pat

The CL mounts for either the stock or 2 L install are billet aluminum, and believe it or not, nice to look at.

Are you going to use the Veloce type of intake and filter can, or small filters on the carbs?

If the former, when doing mine we were pleased to discover that on a horizontal plate just above the intake for the fresh air hose to under the dash there was a hole cut for the 1300 Veloce models. That intake hose was secured to this hole. On the 1600 Veloce, the intake scoop has a horizontal outlet for the air to the feet, and the carb intake is from a vertical outlet. I wanted to replicate this but the Normale air scoop was welded in and not removable to replicate the Giulia Veloce arrangement.

In the Normale, "Luigi" in 1962 tack-welded a metal disc in that came out easily. The 1600 air can comes with a schnorkus that was cut and welded to the hole to hold the flex intake pipe that the guys at CL say is as close to the original as they can get.

However, on the twin-carb set up on the 1600 I don't think you will need the special mounts--there is enough room to accomodate the cold air box for the carbs.

[Subtle]

A shop with enough room to store the car for a few weeks is taking out the 4.56 diff and axles. These, along with the 4.1 LSD diff will be sent to Richard Jemison.

Cruising along at 3500 with the 4.1 calculates at 72 mph, which compares to 65 mph with the 4.56. In a previous post in this thread, I listed a table of comparisons.

It will also make third and fourth more usable.

He will do the conversion and return it in about 3 weeks.

In the meantime, the well-worn 5 speed will be upgraded in the syncros department.

Also I have a close-ratio gear set and will use the taller first and second. With the 4.56 there is no problem in starting off in second gear with no fuss. No need to rev or slip the clutch.

With this final drive, second gear ratio is 9.01--with the 4.1 and the taller first(~3.0) the overall ratio is 12.3.

And this compares with the 15.05 overall gearing with the normal first of 3.30, with the 4.56.

So there should be no probs in starting in most conditions in first gear.

[Subtle]

Making some headway.

Paul has found a machine shop that will change the gear on the counter shaft.

The original gear ratios are: ----------3.30--1.99--1.35--1.00--0.79--

With part of the CR set in it will be:--3.00---1.84--1.26--1.00--0.79--

The CR set has a 0.85 fifth.

Richard has the axles and center section and the tuned up 4.1 LS Diff should be back in a few weeks.

And then running for spring.

[Subtle]

Rj has done the machining required to adopt the 4.1 LSD to the original axles.

I think he will post some pics, with some comment.

[Gordon Raymond]

Subtle,
Talked with RJ about your job the other day. Was not aware you had a 750 center. All came out fine, as you know, but a different job than working with a 101 center! More skill required! Good thing he had the experience. Should be an excellent and unnoticeable modification. Neat trick! Now he can give the 750 owners LS if they want it. Gordon Raymond

[Subtle]

The work done should have some display--perhaps a perspex diff housing?

[Subtle]

That's on the assumption that warmer weather will arrive with the equinox.

The gear box and rear axle will be re installed this week, and the new alloy SZ-type wheels will arrive from England in early April.

[Alfar7]

Quote:

Subtle, Talked with RJ about your job the other day. Was not aware you had a 750 center. All came out fine, as you know, but a different job than working with a 101 center! More skill required! Good thing he had the experience. Should be an excellent and unnoticeable modification. Neat trick! Now he can give the 750 owners LS if they want it. Gordon Raymond

[Gordon Raymond]

VERY VERY nice Richard! Any more photo's of the machine work to the 750 center or housing flanges?
Gordon Raymond

[alfazagato]

Chaps,
Come on! The joy of our cars is an excess of roadholding over grunt. To change that magic proportion looses out somewhere. I am in awe of the sheer engineering qualities in this thread, but, I ask myself, to what end? Smiles per mile has to be the ultimate end, are we getting more smiles...more miles. I think not! Is this mechanical Botox really the way to go?

[Gordon Raymond]

I think my answer would be that an Alfa that is all Alfa parts is an Alfa, simple enough.
It is not as though, on this thread at least, we are installing a 454 aluminum block Chevy V8 with a narrowed 9 + something Ford rear axle and tube frame.
That's fine too, and is beautifully handled in other threads.
Reasonable updates may not make the purist happy, while Alfa itself did update the very same cars over time, both for racing, and for more smiles per mile. Humm? should we all have normale's, or is a Veloce Ok? How about 3 shoe front drums? Well... what about front discs? (horrors!) OR SEAT BELTS!! Surely NOT seat belts!!
Just an opinion. Gordon Raymond

[Alfar7]

Quote:

Chaps, Come on! The joy of our cars is an excess of roadholding over grunt.

[Subtle]

.

I'll revise this into a perspective on making Alfas faster. It has always been done.

If I had bought a Veloce it would be kept as pure as possible-- but, perhaps with the equivalent of a Conrero tune.

But, as we all know we have mountains that begin just outside the city in most directions one can go. So I found a 62 that might have had a 1300, a 4-speed, and Normale brakes. But, it came to me with a single-carb 1600, worn 5-speed, and the big brakes--front and back.

So, while in v. good condition it was no longer unaltered.

Then, quite readily a well-prepared 2 L became available, as did a set of CR gears, and I had to look for the 4.10 LSD.

Then came the skills to put these enhancements together, and this is close to being finished.

As far as weight gain goes--according to the original driver's manual, just going from a Normale to a Veloce adds 15 kg for dual carbs, and intake system. Beyond this, maybe the 2 L adds 30 lbs. However, the alloy wheels will take 16 lbs of unsprung weight off, with some of it inertial, and Richard machined 2.5 lbs off the ring gear. Also less spinning stuff, which applies to the aluminium fly wheel as well.

And by May I should shed about 25 myself--that's not kilos.

In Colorado the passes start at 6000 ft elevation and rise some 4000 feet above that, which really diminishes the HP.

Here, they start at around 700 ft and rise to 4500.

Over the decades, I've driven these roads in a 1300 Sprint, a 1600 Spider--both Normales, as well as a Giulia Super. All were outstanding daily drivers, but frustrating on the hills. Almost the worst was the Morris Minor convertible with the flat head engine. This was called "Old 43" because on trips through the mountains from school it averaged 43 mph at 43 mpg. The handling was respectable, but it was tedious going up those long grades. One of the worst small cars at the time was the Ford Prefect. Even the 1250 MG TF was tedious going up the hills and it did not have all that more on the way down.

Then on each increase in displacement Alfa increased engine output, but kept increasing comforts--as well as weight--. It seems that sales and marketing were having more influence on the design of the overall car. For example, at the time, we thought that Alfa should just have put the 1750 in the Giulia Super instead of designing a hew sedan. Carrying this a little further, in the mid 1970s can you imagine how effective a 2 L Super would have been?

The end result seems to be more in keeping with the spirit of a Giulietta Veloce than with the creature-comfortables that went with a broader marketing effort on later models.