Install of a 2 L Into The Giulietta Spider

[Subtle]

The story is that the 1600 starter had difficulty turning over the 2 L with 10.4 cr. Rather than paying for a rebuild, I ordered a high output one from Alfaholics.

It arrived in April and the manufacturer had the wrong hole pattern on the mounting flange, so it was returned.

Then the old starter died and it was rebuilt, but it is slowly fading and on the Oregon Coast at 49 F in the morning it would not turn the engine over.

The plan was to push it out to the pavement which had a down slope for a rolling start.

This was accomplished, and although the starter is still weakening it does work at higher temps.

Some have posted that with the same install a 1600 starter has been successful for 5 years.

The next morning was a cool and I had to show the "team" that the hand-brake was off.

I'm looking forward to the new new one from Alfaholics.

[Subtle]

A while ago when the idle deteriorated I noticed that one of the new soft mounts had split open. Some silicon provided a temporary fix.

After returning from the N W Rally the silicon failed and it was time to order a new mount. Fortunately I had ordered two as during the week another one failed. One failure is unusual.

The problem became all too evident when the support strut to the cold box was undone. The carbs came up--the strut was too short, and had been pulling the carbs down.

My install used Centerline's cold box and strut, a 105 cross over plenum and a 1600-Veloce style air filter cannister. In talking to Joe today, he mentioned that most on the 2 L install use air filters on the carbs, in which case there is an addition to the strut to support the carbs at the correct angle.

Now we know what is needed on this install and Centerline is crediting my account for the cost of the soft mounts.

The strut will be lengthened appropriately and all will be well.

[Subtle]

The swaybar can do with some new bushings.

Where can I get original rubber ones--not the poly things?

[Gordon Raymond]

Hi Subtle,
If centerline does not have them, Christian Ondrak @ OK parts in Germany does. There are probably other US suppliers as well.
Gordon Raymond

[Subtle]

Gordon

Thanks-- I ordered some stuff earlier from CL and phoned to add to it, but it was too late.

Next order--it is not urgent.

[Subtle]

After the instal the focal point of the linkage was out of alignment left and right, as well vertically.

The rod that runs horizontally interferred with the starter, and the temporay fix was to bend it.

The flange with bell rocker thing was bent to move the assembly about an inch to the right and the whole thing became very sensitive such that the only way it could be driven was by holding my foot to the tranny housing to keep it from bouncing.

Paul made a ss flange to mount to the inner fender and put in a cable to replace the horizontal rod with enough length such that it loops back to move the throttle connection close to the carbs.

Works well.

[Gordon Raymond]

Hi Subtle,
Lots of people get in trouble with this issue. The correct veloce linkage does away with the sensitivity problem and the bent rods. Many try using the bellcrank and hanger from the GT Weber cars, which angles the rod from the firewall ball link downward, toward the starter and makes the whole geometry a bit off. The bellcrank and hanger that Centerline offers is a beautiful bit of machine work. It has the long hanger and is a spot on replacement for the GT unit. The real issue is that the Veloce manifolds differed over time. Early ones had the stud screwed into it and the late ones with a cast ear hanging down drilled for the short or long hanger.
As I have a late '65 veloce, with the OEM assembly, I collected used parts until I had a good spare, short hanger, and correct bellcrank. Then in a moment of boredom, I made up all the parts, welded them up and had a half dozen correct, identical to OEM, complete assemblies. I sold them out some time ago. I recently realized the error of my ways, as I needed another for the Ron Neal / AUSCA 1600 single plug engine I've been restoring. So, I made two more, and could not turn down a $300 offer for them from a SS restorer. (DUMB ME) I hope the one now on the AUSCA engine is the last one I will have to make! I have my drawings and notes, but am tired of building these! They do work, and solve the problems mentioned. The rods can be fabricated from metric drill rod, threaded for the correct metric ball ends. The demand for these is for Ab Normale's and lost, damaged, or missing units form real Veloce's Gordon Raymond

[Subtle]

Took a 6-day tour through southern B C's Okanagan Valley(wine valley) and the Spider performed rather well.

In first and second my foot still has to be held against the tranny tunnel to avoid the lurches, but the problem is mutch reduced.

Otherwise fine, and with full opening of the throttles--is v. good - particularly in the passing department.

Old frustrations were recalled as often the winding sections are still two lane with passing lanes on the straights, and big slower cars in the turns still don't like to be passed by small nimble cars once on the straight.

This time of year the traffic is mutch reduced and the 2 L quickly got us past the occaisional envious driver.

Only two hours of rain and the top up.

[Subtle]

Should have mentioned that the way things being the way they are, we were buying wine faster that we could drink it.

Bought a few cases of special ones for delivery, but it was fun to buy some unusual bottles and friends with a small orchard and vineyard loaded us up with a few bottles of their own stuff as well as a couple of bags of apples.

Then we had to stop for some Fall gourds and squash such that things were stowed in every space, and after adding a few pounds(pressure) to the tires the handling was fine through the passes.

However, on one hump a rear tire did briefly touch but the weight was unusually high. 175/65/15 tires.

Thought we had unloaded everything, but the next day when doing a proper clean up found 3 bottles of ice wine wrapped in the rain-poncho next to the spare tire.

[ecdysiast]

Jay, tell me about your alternator. Race Car Supply says it is ND "type." They also confirmed to me that it's not made by ND. Do you know of a source for real NDs?

Jeffrey

[Subtle]

Jeffrey

Sorry- just noticed your post--don't know.

The way I look at it is that almost any alternator is going to be better than a 45-year old 28 amp Lucas generator and voltage regulator.

[Subtle]

..............4.56 ...................4.1
rpm .. mph .. km/hr..... mph ..... km/hr
6000 .. 111 .. 178 ...... 123 .. 197
5500 .. 102 .. 163 ...... 113 .. 181
5000 .. 93 .. 149 ...... 104 .. 166
4500 .. 83 .. 133 ...... 92 .. 147
4000 .. 74 .. 118 ...... 82 .. 131
3500 .. 65 .. 104 ...... 72 .. 115
3000 .. 55 .. 88 ...... 62 .. 99
2500 .. 46 .. 74 ...... 51 .. 82
2000 .. 37 .. 59 ...... 41 .. 66

NB: These numbers have not been audited.

Sorry for all the periods, but the format couldn't be carried otherwise.

[Subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathung Subtle, I like how your "navigator" left the parking brake on, while the men shoved and heaved trying to get your car to bump-start! Here's the link (scroll down to pictures of many people pushing a little grey Giulietta to no avail): 2007 Monte Shelton Northwest Classic Rally | chuck.goolsbee.org

[pathung]

All these bells and whistles, pretty soon it's gonna be overweight like an Escalade! But the 2L should make up for it, I'm sure!

[Subtle]

Escalade--phshaw!

Over the weight of a Normale, there is the carbs and intake set up-but that is similar to the Veloce's and the instruction book says that the V is 15 kilos heavier, or 33 lbs.

Maybe the 2 L weighs 50 lbs more, and the power is around 155, compared to 80 for a 1300, or 90 for the 1600.

This Spider was a late Giulietta and prolly came from the factory with the 1600 and 5-speed that was in it when I bought it. If it was a Veloce I would not have changed anything, but I doubt that I would have bought one as I intended to end up with a Giulietta Spider 2 L.

On mountain roads the conversion has been well worth the effort.