Install of a 2 L Into The Giulietta Spider

[Subtle]

PM'd you---------

[Partstop80]

I'm new to this forum and this thread caught my eye. I have a 1956 750 Giulietta Spider (#1495-00080) and put a 2L into the car 4 years ago. It's a lot of work, but the car is a blast now. I used a Solex downdraft manifold from a 1300 and put a Weber 32/36 DGV on it and it works well. I remote fit an oil filter housing on the fender wall and plumbed it with AN hose. I left the drum brakes on the rear, but fit the front with corners from a 60's 101 spider with discs....plenty of brake with disc in the front.
Is the A790 alternator a direct fit into the 750 2L conversion? I'm still running a generator and it's not enough juice for much.

[Subtle]

The 2 L should be installed by the end of the month--then we will know if the alternator fits in the smaller space due to the engine cant.

Will advise

[Alfar7]

I saw some earlier post that were incorrect so I thought I would pass on a bit of info.
First the 101 Axle splines are NOT the same size, they are 2mm smaller than the 115 series. 27.5 vs. 29.5 so the axles are out.
see first pic.
In the 2nd picture you will see the 101 axle at the top & a 115 at the bottom. There are 2 spacers on the 115 a thick one (original) and a smaller one. The smaller one will be used (only) These determine after assembly how far out the face of the axle sits from the brake backing plate. Very important as the shoes must be "centered" on the brake material & the drum must fit the backing plate.
As I modified 101 tubes as you can see in pic 3, I had to weld up & machine down the large flange centering flange to fit the larger (200mm) hole in the 115 housing. The lip that fit into the smaller side had to be shortened 1/4 inch as it was the correct diameter, just a bit too long. Since this has gone this far I`m waiting on another Diff I bought to get the LSD Clutch disk from and this will have a 4 disk LSD in place of the stock two.
Hopes this helps,
Richard Jemison
RJR RACING

[Gordon Raymond]

RJ,
I love industrious labor! I'm happy to see it's you doing this and not me! I had Jack Build mine, using 101, 1600 tubes and the 2L center section. I'm not sure which half shafts he used, but the whole thing is exactly the same width as the AUSCA unit. It used a 5:13 locked (6?%) GTA center section bolted to the 101, 1600 tubes, maintaining my 2 shoe drums. Jack cut the tubes @ the welds to use the 2 L flanges. If I remember correctly, the GTA half shafts were larger dia. than stock. I do not remember what was done for bearings @ the tube ends, with the larger shafts. Now, it seems to me, the Jack Beck set up also uses the larger half shafts from the 2 L right? So what do you suppose Jack did with the bearings? I did use the backing plates and bearing retainers from the AUSCA GTA axle on Jack's LS unit. Fits perfectly. I'm curious about what fits what now. If you have time, send me a PM or a phone call so I won't hijack this thread! Best, Gordon Raymond

[Subtle]

Richard

Thanks v. much for spotting my post of an error and pointing out the appropriate method.

Gordon-- thanks for your comments as well.

[Gordon Raymond]

Subtle,
Thanks for the kind words. Now did you notice that RJ has developed a clever way to mount a reasonably large television on the end of a Giulia halfshaft? Looks good in the photo! You know, us older fellas can do almost anything with enough Alfa parts! Best, Gordon Raymond

[Alfar7]

I don`t think we would be stealing the thread since the info has to be valuable to his effort. How much was your bill at JB`s so I know what this was worth?
The outer bearings (wheel bearings) are the same OD so no issue, and the bearing retainers with the drum brake backing plate were the correct fit to clamp the 115 bearing. As a matter of fact, the inner bearing races are the same as a 115, just not as wide.
I made a test fit bearing from one of the old ones by polishing out the inner race in my lathe until it would slide over the axle smoothly. Then after all the tubes, backing plates & brake shoes were bead blasted & painted (epoxy paint) I assembled the test bearing in the temporarily assembled rear end, with the backing plates & brakes (assembled) held on by the retainer & tightened.
I could then slide the axle with drum bolted, with different shim sizes between the axle flat at the bearing to see what size would properly space the drum from the backing plate. About 2 to 3 mm would do the trick.
Doing this type of fabrication is enjoyable. Not like repairing something.
The locked 5.12 that was in it seems to be a perfect justification to convert to a wide carrier LSD rear. I have the 101 axle donor & 115 Diff housing, I`m just out of LSD clutch disk. Anybody got some to share? Need 4. I don`t do stock...
Richard J.
RJR Racing
Scuderiagiallo.com

[Gordon Raymond]

Thanks for the information Richard! This answers about all my questions without pulling Jacks work apart. As for cost, since I wanted to keep the AUSCA GTA unit together, I had to find a late 101, 1600 assembly complete, and buy that. Fortunately, I found one less brake parts, partially stripped, so that cost wasn't too bad. Sold the center section as it was good and kept just the tubes. The complete, with everything 115 axle, was $600 including shipping, as I remember it, by the time Jack had it in hand. Total cost was around $ 2200, when it was all done and tricked out with the discs set up for street and track. This did, however, leave some 115 bits left over. The finished axle, looks stock, but definately is not. Jack explained all this as he was operating, but the addition of your input makes it clear that this is a job for a real good machinist, and someone very good at part scrounging. When complete, it really does beat any locked axle, and is repairable with available parts.
Someone must have a disassembled center to get the discs you need, but I do understand not paying a whole lot for them. They do wear, and worn out ones are not much good. I've used Red Line syn. in my axle thus far to try to keep the discs happy as long as possible. I've about 2,000 miles on it now, and though still tight, it is slightly quieter than when first set up. I'm wondering how long the discs will last. It's hard to tell with the LS, as it's LS feature goes away slowly. Thanks again Richard. Best, Gordon Raymond

[Subtle]

Made some headway this week.

In B C it is still required to get a collector's car through the emmissions BS. But it is worth it as the "Collectors" plate with insurance costs $250 per year and the emmission test is at idle and only needs to be done once.

Quite likely it would have difficult, if not impossible, to get the 2 L through with 10.4 cr and 7L cams. Fortunately there is an Alfa tuning shop with an exhaust gas diagnostic sensor and that was done successfully on Friday.

Then during the continuing monsoon , I drove the Spider out to Don's. That was a 35 minutes and , hey, it stayed dry inside and the windshield didn't fog up.

Then with Mike's help, the 1600 was out by 3 pm. There has been no damage or repairs done to the front-end at all. I got an "assist" for holding the light and cleaning up the spills.

[Subtle]

After some set backs last week--this has been a good one.

The back-ordered water pump, after 5 weeks, has arrived. The correct, this time, motor mounts should be picked up tomorrow, and the project can procede.

On top of that the monsoon has finally stopped and the Turbo Wagon's satellite radio screen is now using bigger letters.

[iowaalfa]

Subtle:

I've installed a 4:56 LSD rear axle ***'y (rebuilt and modified to fit by Jack Beck, Orion Motorsports) from a 1974 2L donor Spider. Had to salvage the coil spring mounts from my original axle, got the reaction triangle and other hardware from Dan Zebel -- who used to supply this in kit form to Centerlinie. Also reinforced the trailing arm brackets for lateral loads--in stock form, they're a weak link in the system. Haven't run the car yet -- still working on the conversion (1750 into my 1963 101 Spider), but am optimistic this will be a good upgrade. Unlike you, I chose to go with disc brakes all the way around--for simplicities and $$$ sake, but loved the old drums. Don't have current contact information for Dan Zebel, unfortunately.

[Subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Partstop80 I'm new to this forum and this thread caught my eye. I have a 1956 750 Giulietta Spider (#1495-00080) and put a 2L into the car 4 years ago. It's a lot of work, but the car is a blast now. I used a Solex downdraft manifold from a 1300 and put a Weber 32/36 DGV on it and it works well. I remote fit an oil filter housing on the fender wall and plumbed it with AN hose. I left the drum brakes on the rear, but fit the front with corners from a 60's 101 spider with discs....plenty of brake with disc in the front. Is the A790 alternator a direct fit into the 750 2L conversion? I'm still running a generator and it's not enough juice for much.

[Subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowaalfa Subtle: I've installed a 4:56 LSD rear axle ***'y (rebuilt and modified to fit by Jack Beck, Orion Motorsports) from a 1974 2L donor Spider. Had to salvage the coil spring mounts from my original axle, got the reaction triangle and other hardware from Dan Zebel -- who used to supply this in kit form to Centerlinie. Also reinforced the trailing arm brackets for lateral loads--in stock form, they're a weak link in the system. Haven't run the car yet -- still working on the conversion (1750 into my 1963 101 Spider), but am optimistic this will be a good upgrade. Unlike you, I chose to go with disc brakes all the way around--for simplicities and $$$ sake, but loved the old drums. Don't have current contact information for Dan Zebel, unfortunately.

[Subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Raymond Subtle, Thanks for the kind words. Now did you notice that RJ has developed a clever way to mount a reasonably large television on the end of a Giulia halfshaft? Looks good in the photo! You know, us older fellas can do almost anything with enough Alfa parts! Best, Gordon Raymond