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post #61 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-23-2006, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Boudewijn View Post
Great thread.
I guess this is the Abate car as it is today?
The Abate car is 2158. I think this is 3613, restored to look like the Abate car (the nose isn't quite right).
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post #62 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 01:25 AM
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martinue thanks for the starting list for Coppa Intereuropa GT1.3 – Monza ,according to my files it was in 1957.
The Bertone SV Aerodynamic no 33, should be from the same race, but in 1958.The Bertone is on the edge regarding this Tread. But I find it interesting, as to me, it gives the an indication of what problems, marketing wise, these SVZ gave Alfa Romeo-Bertone in relation to there "standard"SV.
Was the Aerodynamic Bertone a one off?
Flugplatzrennen Zeltweg:
you state number 69 as a SVA and others as SV.I gees that this race also is from 1957, it means they all are first serie. And then I expect them all to be SVA in you interpretation.
I found a picture of the front of the first SVZ that was produced for the driver Massimo di Priole on chassis 01944. The picture is from 1957
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post #63 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
The Abate car is 2158. I think this is 3613, restored to look like the Abate car (the nose isn't quite right).
I believe the car is owned by Anthony Wang. Because of the high level of quality of his other collection cars I am inclined to doubt inaccuracies in this car. But as always, maybe I'm wrong.
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post #64 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 05:11 AM
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I have a picture of the Abate car, from the Zagato book by Marchiano, and also judged from other old pictures in this tread, there is differences as pointed out by the good DR.
It doesn't mean that we judge or qestion the originality of the Antony Wang car, its just an expression have difficult it is with these cars. They have been wreck, probably, several times and then rebuild. And now one cared about the originality of the look, they just went back to the race track.
Its only after they have become collectors item, these questions come back. Have did these cars really looked when they first left the Zagato Carrozzeria.
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post #65 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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SVA vs. SVC

The SV Confortevole were first presented in September 1957. Up to this date every SV was of Alleggerita type with sliding windows. From here on only the photos showing the side windows can keep SVAs apart from Convortevoles with descending windows. SVAs were built around 400 from April 1956 to April 1958, SVCs around 200 from September 1957 to April 1958 according to sources.
Zeltweg 1958: No. 69 is of course a SVA, the other car aside on the upper photo seems to be a SVC, the third is a SVA again, but I can not see the starting numbers to clear it with the entries. It will need to take a close look on some more period photographs.
In my post #59 in this thread I wrote the exact dates:
19580817 Flugplatzrennen Zeltweg GT (A): entry list
19570908 Coppa Intereuropa GT1.3 – Monza (I): entry list
19580907 Coppa Intereuropa GT1.1/GT1.3 – Monza (I), No. 33 which was modified by Bertone according to the Giulietta book by Anselmi, maybe like the SVZs because of a front damage.
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post #66 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 08:21 AM
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Thank you martinue
I have 2 pictures, I don't know at what race they are taken
And a merry Christmas to everyone on this forum, with the sincere hope that everyone will have there secret wishes come trough
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post #67 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Boudewijn View Post
I believe the car is owned by Anthony Wang. Because of the high level of quality of his other collection cars I am inclined to doubt inaccuracies in this car. But as always, maybe I'm wrong.
I believe it is the Wang car, but check out post #12. I think the car is #3613 and not #2158.

As to the "aerodynamic" Bertone, as far as I am aware, it is a one off. As to not including it, than we probably shouldn't include the Scaglietti car or the later yellow Conrero car.

As to SVCs, I have seen ones with roll up and some with sliding windows.

Most of the period entry lists I have show simply Alfa giulietta, so I don't know if the car is even a spider or a sprint; much less, a SV, SVZ, SVC, or simply a sprint.

Last edited by dretceterini; 12-24-2006 at 11:27 AM.
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post #68 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp View Post
Thank you martinue
I have 2 pictures, I don't know at what race they are taken
And a merry Christmas to everyone on this forum, with the sincere hope that everyone will have there secret wishes come trough
Can't give you any help as to races or S/Ns, but you can certainly see minor differences between both of these 1958 version cars. As cars were different when first built, it makes it very difficult to say what is incorrect today with any degree of certainty.
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post #69 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-25-2006, 12:35 PM
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First of all, thanks Martin for opening and feeding such an interesting thread.

It took me quite a couple of hours for cross-checking the info with my sources, and I couldn’t afford it before due to work schedule.

Car registered OP-HH-4 is, according to Ad Smits’ latest research (Het KB article in 2004 was an update of his former Giuliettaletta one), Schultze’s 04657 was sold on Feb. 15th 1960 to Bernd Degener from Opladen. He sold the car away the next year, on March 21st 1961 to Ernst Gertsch from Emmendingen (Freiburg) who had it re-registered EM-M47. Wolfgang Steidle (EHI-H 1- post 39) is a later owner of the same car, having bought it on Oct. 9th 1962. The picture is from the Solitude race in 1963.

It is the same 04657 that features on the second pic posted by 2000 Touring in post 46 (page 4) with race #65, as Martin listed. The peculiar feature is the bear designed on the side, which is the Berlin bear.

The #62 car at Sestriere on 2000 Touring’s third pic is 02158 at the 1957 venue with Abate.

Edgar Berney’s #83 in post 30 should be the same car as #12 in post 27. The full size picture in Racing Giuliettas shows clearly the tribune behind, which is beyond any doubt Spa’s main tribune on the finish line. So the #12 has the same design as on the pic of the same car crashed against a pole at Hollowell (part of Spa track) on May 3rd 1959.

The pic of the Belgian registered SVZ (post 25 – race#111) is a 1960 one with Berger-Roggemans. In 1959, it was registered T5081, raced by Pilette-Liekens (race #83), prepared by Conrero. It DNFed for carburettor troubles. Unfortunately Pilette couldn’t help with identifying the car.

Consten-Hebert’s car registered 643EH14 is 04717 according to original documentation acquired by Ad Smits from Consten. The body was in early 1959 fitted to another chassis, registered 948FA14, and believed to be possibly 08780. I find it plausible since the front end shape fits well, unlike many bodies on non-SVA chassis numbers. Rear end has instead obviously been reconstructed.

Now a sidenote. I wonder about 09403, a Sprint Normale chassis number wearing the umpteenth double bubble roof out of 3, and having shapes it doesn’t share with other cars. I wouldn’t care. But the point arises right now, when series1gtv takes that very car as an example of what he likes most as rear end shape. I won’t debate on the taste, anyone’s entitled to like it, and it isn’t bad at all anyway. The problem is that the question “why did they leave that path and go for the later SZ shape” makes no sense at all if that’s not an original shape (whatever the authenticity of the car, which is not my point). Check the period picture of Abate’s car rear end and you can start a discussion on the evolution of coachbuilding. This is a good example of the poor service restorers or replica builders make to the automobile culture. Series1gtv, I hope you don’t mind, I’m sure you are in absolute good faith about this. The same goes for 3613 vs. 2158: it is obviously not the same car. 3613 is a Normale chassis number. Boudewijn, check KB 108 page 103...
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post #70 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 12:52 PM
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Sva.# 01849

I know a lady in Italy that has that car now and is been restore in Vicenza Italy with all the right parts. I actualy got her a aluminum rear light assembly
this is the car in 1958 with Ada Pace in the picture.
The car also has the original engine #AR1315*30046, the vin is AR1493E01849

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Originally Posted by martinue View Post
SVA #01849 was owned and raced by Ada Pace. She had it rebodied by Zagato in early 1958. Ada Pace raced it until 1959 and was italian female champion twice, no information since
Attachment 52705
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58 Giulietta spider Veloce(sold)
07 Volvo XC90 V8 Sport

Last edited by Joseph; 12-27-2006 at 01:52 PM.
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post #71 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 01:08 PM
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Sva

Martinue.

I have picture of the car now and it is not a rebody Zagato, that SVA 01849 from Ada Pace is the same as the picture I have post ,from the model car No.48 which was Ada Pace and still like that, but was partialy destroy in the rear and much of the front while racing, and the aluminum part were change to Normale ,Latter The front was destroy from the rust. it is now been restore to it's original SVA lightweight condition. See last picture with the new front from Diego Carrara
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58 Giulietta spider Veloce(sold)
07 Volvo XC90 V8 Sport

Last edited by Joseph; 01-28-2007 at 05:13 AM. Reason: errors
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post #72 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by martinue View Post
SVA #01849 was owned and raced by Ada Pace. She had it rebodied by Zagato in early 1958. Ada Pace raced it until 1959 and was italian female champion twice, no information since
Attachment 52705
1849 with motor 30046 was a SV sold to Pace on 5/3/56. As this car still exists today, still with the SV body, this must be another car.
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post #73 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by martinue View Post
SVZ #01521 was for sale on auction in 1998 (GB) and 2000 (D). According to auction papers it is based on a 1956 Sprint Normale and was rebodied by Zagato in 1958, UK registered.
No other information since
Attachment 52703
I would like to see proof that the Zagato rebody dates back to 1958, and is not "modern".
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post #74 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by martinue View Post
SVS #01819 is based on a 1956 SVA (Alleggerita type) and was rebodied in 1957 by Scaglietti for its owner Domenico Rabino. Rabino raced it until 1958, no information since
Attachment 52704
Sold to Ing.Rubino on 5/5/56 as a SV. I have seen no proof it was an SVA.
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post #75 of 739 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 03:48 PM
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SVZ #01944 was the first SVZ. It was one of the first SVAlleggeritas ever sold and was destroyed only a few days later in the 1956 Mille Miglia. During the summer of 1956 it was rebodied by Zagato for the Leto di Priolo brothers. Massimo Leto di Priolo raced it first in the 1956 Coppa Intereuropa at Monza on the Formula One weekend, and took a class win (GT1.3). The Leto di Priolo brothers raced it until the end of 1957 and sold it to Giorgio Ubezzi from Torino (father of Alfabb-member mbuezzi). After a few races he repainted the car rosso and went on to Le Mans. From then on there is no information. In 1960 he went again to Le Mans with a SVZ, possibly the same car but with the later 1958 SVZ bodywork and new registration plates. No information since
Attachment 52706

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Attachment 52708
Original motor number 30059.
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