'63 Giulia Spider Normale Restoration (Euro)

[AlfaDuc]

Patrick,
Even though the engine may look seriously tilted, the important part is that the bottom of the oil pan must be parallel to the floor. The Veloce sumps were cast to account for the correctly tilted engine while keeping the base of the pan level, and the oil level within the pan uniformly deep above the pump pickup. If a Veloce sump is not used, there could be some real oil starvation issues. As for getting the lovely headers to take their rightful place, you can also remove the bolts on the pedal box and move the box / brake master cylinder slightly out of the way till the engine / headers are seated (it would be even easier if the brake lines were not already hooked up). If there is interference when the pedal box is bolted back down, it will be easier to "adjust" the headers as necessary to clear the M/C. And a final note: it's almost (but not 100%) impossible to install the headers with the engine already in the car. Even loosening the motor mounts / jacking up the engine / removing the heat shield, etc., are not quite enough to slip the headers in without a lot of metal-to-metal contact. After doing this once, I decided it would be easier to raise the engine on a hoist, or pull the head if I ever had to do it all again.
Have fun, Jim

[alphil]

Rear wheel cylinder dust boots and fitting kits(steel plates) are the same as Triumph TR6. Moss dust boot PN#582-190 @$3.75,fitting kit which includes dust boots is PN#582-225@$23.45.FWIW it took me a while to figure out that when assembling the three plates on the rear wheel cylinder,it's easier to put the middle one in last.Always enjoy your posts,Regards,Phil

[pathung]

Phil, I wonder if Moss carries dust boots for our parking brake bracket opening? It seems you're referring to ones for the brake cylinders.

In regards to engine tilt, we did install a Veloce sump, so no oil starvation problem there; thanks for the caution, Jim.

As to the headers, it'd seem that the general solution is to bend the pipes to fit, by heating or some other method, rather than pulling the engine back out and reinstall - the pipes are just contoured incorrectly for this car. This car is a Normale, so Veloce headers are certainly foreign objects, as far as this car's concerned; however, I don't think that Normales and Veloces are different in terms of brake MC placement, and certainly not the location of the engine mount supports; this leaves as culprit a set of headers that was at some point sat on by a really FAT Italian during lunch break!

During our "struggle", I noted that the only way #1 and #3 pipes could see some clearance would be to move the engine forward and up (effectively forward at a 45 degree angle) - this would be ridiculous however as we have already attached the transmission support to the chassis, ensuring that we have the correct forward/aft placement of the drive-train. Another variable is the location of the exhaust manifold head studs; The PO cracked the original 1600 head, and replaced it with a 1750; I was told that 1600 and 1750 heads are identical when it comes to exhaust port/stud locations, so this is probably a moot point.

By the way, thanks to all for chiming in; your comments are what make this thread an interesting read, even for myself.

[alphil]

Patrick,You're right,the wording in my reply is misleading as I didn't include the words "parking brake lever",and I apologize. I "am" referring to the dust boot for the "parking brake lever opening"(which you and Gordon discussed),and the three metal plates that retain the rear wheel cylinder to the backplate.Go to the Moss motors website and search the TR6 Brake parts area for a blow-up of these parts,or just search the part numbers I gave previously which are Moss numbers.Hope this helps,Regards,Phil

[pathung]

Great! Thanks Phil - these will certainly be more accessible to U.S. owners. To install the rubber boot, all I have to do is undo the brake cable from the lever, pop on the boot, and re-attach the cable, methinks. I'll order a set and post their photos here when I receive them.

[Gordon Raymond]

Uh, ummm. Methinks it's worse than that. The reason I hesitated doing this is because you have to remove the hydraulic brake line too... Agghhhhh!

[pathung]

Gordon, thanks for the close-up photo.

I haven't added brake fluid to the system yet, so it'd be easy to disconnect the brake line. I assume that the boot then simply stretches/pulls over the aluminum bleeder piece, after first slotting the bracket through... The bleeder currently has the metal shims installed; the boot in your photo seems to go over these shims.

[Gordon Raymond]

Hi Patrick,
No fluid is GOOD! The boot goes UNDER the shims. Very easy with NO fluid.

[pathung]

I see now that your shims are painted black!

[Gordon Raymond]

They were originally a black oxide finish, however that rusted quite easily. They are now painted. The currently available versions are a grey/black oxide.

[alphil]

I used anti-sieze on the sliding surfaces only,i.e. between the shim pack and brake backplate,and so far no rust has formed in that area.But still,I'd have to consider using something like Permatex ultra disc brake caliper lube(green grease)as a better alternative,which is touted as protection for rubber as well as metal.Any thoughts?

[pathung]

To up the ante on George Kraus, I'm GOLD-PLATING this recently-acquired S/S front license plate bracket.

[Gordon Raymond]

OMG! And you can't even see it when the plate is on!
Ok, Ok, patrick, just for that, I'll GOLD PLATE MY SPROCKETS!
{and maybe just the inside of my valve cover}

[alfazagato]

Partick...a little late in your engine fixing saga but this just might help. I always remove the studs from the block and helicoil the holes. I machine 2-3mm off each face of the engine mounts and make up spacers either triangular or circular depending on where they go. Hang the engine in place and fit the exhaust manifolds. Fit the mount and rubber to each side...they slide in easily as there are now no studs and use cap headed bolts to fix. You can immediately see what needs to be done to get the correct clearances all round the engine and play with the spacers to your heart's content .

[pathung]

Thanks for your suggestions, Stuart; those might be something we try when we move on to Project #2 and #3.

We currently have the engine and transmission installed (bolted down), but the problem rests in some unwieldy headers that are not correctly shaped for the available space. Gordon suggested heating and bending, while we're thinking of ways to "collapse" the tubes a bit to make clearance.