'63 Giulia Spider Normale Restoration (Euro) - Page 48

**pathung** · #**706** (**permalink**) 03-10-2009, 09:38 PM

And of the brakes:

**Gordon Raymond** · #**707** (**permalink**) 03-10-2009, 09:59 PM

Beautiful as always Patrick! I notice you do not have the dust seals over the parking brake hooks. My car still the crumbling originals, but I did finally find the correct ones about a year ago. I believe they came from Christian Ondrak @ OK parts, but maybe Tony Stevens @ Alfastop. Can't remember.

**pathung** · #**708** (**permalink**) 03-10-2009, 11:08 PM

Gordon, do you have a photo of those seals handy? I don't recall ever seeing any on this car... thanks.

**Gordon Raymond** · #**709** (**permalink**) 03-10-2009, 11:28 PM

Patrick, I'll photo my crumbling remains on the car and locate my new ones tomorrow. That might also tell me the source.
Here is a picture of the "dust shield" from the parts book.

**pathung** · #**710** (**permalink**) 03-10-2009, 11:51 PM

Gordon, looking at your car's photo on the Photo Thread, I was wondering if your car has a separate/non-standard switch to actuate the fog lights? I'm contemplating using one of the three beavertails, functions of which escape me, yet again... (wipers, heater, ... forget the last, and probably in the wrong order from left to right).

By the way, you wouldn't happen to have an extra front license plate bracket that you could sell me? Or anyone else? My front bumper has two holes underneath to bolt a bracket with. Thanks.

**Gordon Raymond** · #**711** (**permalink**) 03-11-2009, 12:07 AM

Actually I have 5!

The fog light is in line with the other three, so there are four along the dash bottom evenly spaced, all identical and (naturally

) unlabeled. Then another lives under the ignition switch, still identical and unlabeled for the GTA electric fuel pump. This one could be wired to the ignition switch, but years ago, racing, the pump switch was required.

Equally interesting is that I have collected 4 or 5 NOS spare Lucas switches, as these are OEM Lucas, and must eventually fail, right?

All 5 of the originals still work as perfectly as they did 43 years ago. This is likely because I have NEW SPARES!

**pathung** · #**712** (**permalink**) 03-11-2009, 11:57 PM

I've got some extra Lucas switches as well from a bidding frenzy on eBay, but now I must decide where to put it - just underneath the ignition switch, partly hidden away seems like a good idea... will need a relay, yeah? Running that long wire from the trunk's battery is going to be a bit of a headache. Will go look for existing holes in the rear trunk wall.

**Gordon Raymond** · #**713** (**permalink**) 03-12-2009, 12:47 PM

No, no, no Patrick. Very easy. Cigarette lighter. Thats wired plenty heavy enough for your driving lights. Relay lives under the dash. Keep it simple. and HIDDEN.

**pathung** · #**714** (**permalink**) 03-12-2009, 06:28 PM

Ah!! Very nice trick - I'll give it a go.

**pathung** · #**715** (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 10:48 PM

So we decided to drop the engine in today (along with attached tranny).

We inserted the headers (NOS Veloce) first, then proceeded to expertly maneuver the engine/tranny into the engine bay, and that was the end of the "easy" part.

Tried "Difficult Part I" (described below), couldn't get it done, so all sat down to lunch first.

Difficult Part I: Installing the billeted Veloce Mounts to the engine and setting the entire engine/tranny assembly into the proper mount receptacles in the chassis - this proved a bit difficult with the loose headers getting in the way this way and that. We finally had to nut down one side, and later resort to a bit of brute force to slide the other side in. This took four men tackling the job, yanking and cursing, and two innocent visitors looking on incredulously. This shop is always full of visitors, Alfa experts or not.

Difficult Part II: Properly attaching the headers onto their corresponding head studs. This took some effort, and lots of primitive-seeming tools to get done. One helper split on us half-way through, so progress became even slower (the visitors had also decided to leave due to the randomly thrown-about foul language). We got headers #2 and #3 attached first, while #1 and 4 remained stubbornly unaligned with their bolts. With some clever "leveraging" and said tools (axe, mallets, pry bars, crow bars), we finally got #1 and 4 to install.

Difficult Part III (ongoing): Helper #2 also decided to split. We then discovered that #1 and #3 are jammed up against the frame and brake MC, respectively; no playing around with engine height/mounts helped. We're still working on a solution for this.

In the meanwhile, enjoy the pics:

**pathung** · #**716** (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 10:51 PM

Photo batch #2

**Gordon Raymond** · #**717** (**permalink**) 03-20-2009, 12:43 AM

Having done this, probably too many times with these cars, I no longer curse. I'm resolved to the difficulty, but resolute in my knowledge it can and will fit.
Who's headers Patrick? Of all those I've used recently, Centerlines, generally (but not always) fit best. That said, I have resorted to the oxy-acetylene for the problem you mention.
If you will lift the header side of the engine slightly, leaving the Weber side "in the slot with the nut on loose", you can slip and pry the header flanges over the head studs. Nut loosely, (all 8) and lower that side close to the stub frame slot. Slide a pipe in the header outlet under the car, and heat cherry red under there while g e n t l y bending the header, using the pipe as a lever. Lower more and heat and bend more as required until the engine mount is all the way down in the slot. Tighten up the stud/ flange nuts. Tighten up engine mount nuts. Jack rear transmission mount into place. Install only the two tip 8 mm bolts. Use LONG ones. Again, heat and bend some more while raising and lowering transmission mount until there is frame and master cylinder clearance. tighten transmission bolts, all 6. Now fit the collector using the torch as necessary, wooden blocks as wedges, pipes in the tubes for bending, and a large dead blow or rawhide hammer for "adjustment" until the collector lines up properly. This is just a general outline of the labors I have used on non-centerline headers for proper fit. It involves few bad words, considerable patience, and above all, being resolute in your knowledge that it actually does and will fit in there as it should. After you have done this job ONLY 3 or 4 times, you will become expert. Sometimes I find a case of cold beer helps, used sparingly. It must be GOOD beer. Just my opinion. I hope my experiences and suggestions help!

**pathung** · #**718** (**permalink**) 03-20-2009, 08:58 AM

Gordon, thanks for your very helpful post. Being new at this, I hadn't thought of heating the tubes to bend, though Glenn probably has, or is thinking to. I'll forward your suggestions to him to add to his list of possible options. Like you said, it'll get done, one way or another.

To answer your question, these are NOS Veloce headers, not after-market reproductions.

Looking at the car head-on in the second-to-last photo, I'm amazed at the amount of tilt that those Centerline mounts instill to fit the side-draft Webers. And though I don't have a picture of this, the weight of the power-train has brought the front wheel arch down to about an inch (or less) from the top of the tire - good thing I stuck with original-sized tires/wheels.

**Gordon Raymond** · #**719** (**permalink**) 03-20-2009, 11:32 AM

I believe Centerline's tilt is the standard Veloce tilt. More or less does not work well.

Don't ask how I know. The thing to consider is that the tilt is generated from a centerline through the engine, lengthwise from the mount studs. I've found the taller the engine, the more the head moves off center. This is GOOD

as it allows more room between the headers and the steering column as the block gets as tall as a 2L. For specifics as to how much room you should have, Joe Cabb @ Centerline will either know, or be able to find out for you. Some of these fit disasters can be caused by a previous owner or owners having altered what ever headers you have for their application.

Something to consider if the headers were not new or of a type that fit your application easily to begin with.

Another solution I have found useful is to attach the headers loosely to the head with the mounts about 6 to 8 inches off the chassis perches, and then lower while wiggling them around while they are through the hole in the suspension stub frame to see where they will hit something.

I also use heavy corrugated cardboard behind the engine where the throttle cross linkage lives, around the steering column, front stub frame member, and other areas where things WILL

hit. Touch up painting will be necessary no matter HOW CAREFUL you are.

In some cases I have had engines in and completely out of a car a half dozen times before everything is just right. BTW, Leave the alternator off! It will give more wiggle room. I also leave off the canister style oil filter and anything else that can get caught or cause damage. The easy rule is KEEP IT SIMPLE! Since this it fitting, not forcing, and involves patience, over the years I have learned to do it alone, or with only one helper that has done it before. Too many opinions and helpers pulling in different directions make it difficult for the "Officer in charge", GLENN, to see exactly where and by how much things are going astray.

There needs to be time for the pause, in any position, to understand what the next 1/2 inch lower will change. That is what the case of good cold beer is for. It allows relaxation and discussion either with yourself, or helper. Another good plan is to spend only a specific time on the project, each day, over a couple of days. This avoids rapid depletion of the beer, and allows time at home, staring at the ceiling, to come up with new idea's.
You must remember that this particular chassis and engine(S) combination(S) is very much like 2.5 Kg of good italian sausage links in a 1 Kg bag. All from my personal experience.

**Pat Garrett** · #**720** (**permalink**) 03-20-2009, 12:00 PM

Just to add to what has already been said by Gordon. I gave up many years ago having anyone help me put an engine in a giulietta/giulia spider. They (?) always seen to push/pull at the wrong time/place. Also it may be too late now, but my last time putting headers on was a real B***h!! So, now I have used a ball reamer and made the header holes a bit larger on the inside and they now go on the studs a lot easier than before. Plus you need to have the outlet end supported, rather than hanging down when trying to get them lined up. Also check out the heat shield for the master cylinder as it tends to get in the way too much.
Engine looks bitchen!!!
Regards,
pat