'63 Giulia Spider Normale Restoration (Euro)

[Gordon Raymond]

GTD is probably correct. I cannot imagine the equipment is inexpensive, moreover, it's probably best to keep it running. Big jobs would be best. How many Alfa blocks are awaiting a Dry Ice blast? We probably need some feedback from someone that has used this system for whatever it is really intended. A block wouldn't be much of a job. Probably needs to be slipped in with the "real" work. Anyone used this system or even seen it used? Gordon Raymond

[pathung]

I just answered my own question regarding cost of dry ice blasting, and some of yours who just posted. I now recall having looked into dry ice blasting back in '05 when I was dreading scraping off the undercoating by hand. Somebody online directed me to Bob Flook at Dry Ice Blasting: Environmentally Safe Industrial Cleaning Service, and here's his responses to a few of my questions:

Bob: "As a matter of fact I have done undercoatings before. We did a classic car that had an interior fire and smelled the thing up pretty bad. After the interior was stripped, I blasted the inside and removed the smoke and smell. Then we went underneath and removed all the undercoating. It gets cold and just pops off in chunks.I worked in a hot rod shop so I know what your talking about. I was able to remove 50 year old undercoating without damaging the paint on the outside of the car.I can blast right over gas tanks with no problem because dry ice is non-explosive and non-conductive. I can clean a running engine and all the wiring etc. because there is no water involved. Dry ice does not have the ability to remove metal (aluminum/brass/etc.) because it is non abrasive. If you get the car up on a rack, I can blast the underside. Call me on my cell when you get a chance..."

And as George stated, it's expensive: "...The undercoating that I've done is the thick factory tar based that is on your typical chevy or ford. If the coating is too rubbery, it will bounce the pellet back and slow the strip rate. I would have to test a spot or a sample piece.

My charges are $210.00/hr. That includes the air compressor, dry ice, and everything needed to blast. The last car took about 4 hrs.

I am totally portable and can blast anywhere. 4 feet off the ground is a little tight for blasting. A car lift is perfect. I need to be able to stand underneath it. And yes, there will be a mess to sweep up, but just the coating."

Well, looks like dry ice won't quite get rid of the crud in the water jacket, or will it, since it's corroded/relatively-loose metal? At 15 minutes/block, that's $52.50, chump change for the 99.5-point show car restorer!

[GTD]

Patrick is pretty accurate with that hourly rate. I talked to a business in NH that charges $250/hr but... that's for operator labor and equipment rental. The CO-2 costs are added and there is a minimum fee.
They're not interested in quickie jobs or "drop it and we'll blast it sometime next week".

If one had the finances for it; it is the neatest method for cleaning and de-greasing! But I drive ALFAs, not F-cars (sorry GR ) and costs are a big factor.

[Pat Garrett]

Pat, A bit late but, I just received my dash pad from centerline, but no nuts to go with the pad and out of all the nuts I have around here, none will match the bolts on the dash pad. What did you use and just how many times did you have to try fitting the dash pad to get it to work.
Thanks,
pat G.

[pathung]

Pat,

The bolts on my dash pad were M5s, but they were initially crudded up with enough fiberglass that none of my nuts would thread on either. I used an M5 die to clean the bolt threads and bingo. If you don't have a die with small-enough outer diameter to clear the dash when turning, cut/file a few vertical grooves into the threads of an M5 nut, and use that as your die; this worked quite well for me, albeit time consuming.

Fitting the pad onto the dash will probably scratch your dash-top paint a bit, but since it's covered, I didn't mind that too much. There are four bolts total on the pad, align and insert the three on the right side against into their respective holes first, then work the one on the left of the steering wheel. Some brute force is required, but the fiberglass is JUST flexible enough for you to finally coax the bolt into the hole. Once in, use a soft mallet to tap all across the front of the pad to seat it snugly against the nose/front edge of the metal dash. Hope this helps.

[Gordon Raymond]

See that HAMMER Pat? Patrick probably has a larger, heavier one somewhere. When I did mine, I found it necessary to slightly enlarge a hole. That works too. Seriously, some whacking with a soft object, first ones hand, then a cloth covered HAMMER gets things snug. Gordon Raymond

[meatbird29]

Hey Patrick

I can't keep up with you guys. I still stuck on pulling my engine to get my headers on. I have to get some help. My son is away at his college town. Read your threads on brake lines and dashes, nice job. I tried Centerlines dash,couldn't make it fit so I made my own. Still have to fit it though. Read the thread on Webers I'm just getting to work on them. I have the same maniflod as AlfaJay. My Giulietta (normale) has the old manual valve and I'm not sure as to how to install it with the Weber maniflod. I have one hose from the water pump and two on the maniflod. Which of the two hose outlets on the manifold goes to the heater and what do I do with the other one? I'm lost!! Beside does anyone know where I can get a new hose nipple for this manifold? Are they NPT or British Std? Hey AlfaJay thanks for the alternator info I'm fitting mine above the steering box had to make some new supports. Hope they work. Hey you guys thanks for the help.
I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as I go along. Hope my ride comes out as good what I've seen.

Al Conforti

[pathung]

Hey Al,

For the manual valve, hopefully a Giulietta Spider Veloces owner can post some photos here for you; that should clear things up. I don't know what to make of the hose nipple either.

[pathung]

I got the gas tank installed yesterday, which was easier than I thought. I'd previously helped a friend with his; his tank straps were a bit short for some reason, so we struggled with the thing for hours before one of us was able to secure nuts onto the strap bolts from inside the trunk. Been dreading the job ever since, but bingo, mine went on in 15 minutes! Fitting the big rubber hose over the tank's mouth and the pump inlet didn't take too long either - I used modern clamps to make sure no fumes get into the trunk. I've yet to install the breather tube, so so far everything lines up well enough.

I also worked on getting the steering column finalized. The turn signal assembly has been installed, and the steering wheel is currently being polished; slow work.

Next big job - the doors: glass, latch, and rubber gaskets; not my favorite.

[pathung]

Not a lot of work accomplished today at Glenn's today, since I was only there for about 4 hours, with people coming to the house to see the GTV and all (hey, any takers here?). We worked mostly on the drive-shaft, which I had brought in. It was boring enough that I didn't bother to take pictures, but there are things even here to be learned, mind you; for example, balance of the entire assembly is of utmost importance. Did you know that the factory thought likewise, and stamped both ends (front short and back long) with arrows that must be lined up? Of course you did (now don't go scurrying off to the garage!). Well I didn't, and good to know and glad to learn. Hope I didn't get the ends wrong there.

Next topic on our list of usual (but often USEFUL) banter was a bit of a "stumper", as the "car guys" on NPR would term it. Well, the rubber coupling that goes on the short end of the shaft that the factory calls the "giubo" was the culprit. I called it a "jiubo", as any normal American would; Glenn raised an eyebrow, and told me that he's called it a "gooeybo" all these years, though admittedly, it is spelled "giubo", as evidenced by the OEM giubo that we were both gawking at. Well, easy, depending on what language it is, we'd simply pronounce it the correct way... except neither of us was sure what language it was. We decided that it must be Italian... but how does one produce the letter "G" in Italian? Jiubo or Heubo? I got the "Heubo" idea from Spanish, as the "G", when followed by either letter "i" or "e", is pronounced as "Hee" or "Hae", respectively. Since the "G" in giubo is followed by letter "i", it must be pronounced as Heubo. Glenn wasn't convinced, but didn't put his sandwich where his mouth was either... nor did I. Glenn went on to add that he liked that the fact that "Gooeybo" rhymes with Guido, which is an Italian name; I'll have to agree with him on that one. "Where's Guido's Gooeybo?!", a phrase that could be heard often shouted up and down the Giulietta assembly line back in the day in Portello. I'm sure that we're both wrong, but it adds to the Alfa mystique.

So, which is it, and what's the story behind this mystery coupling? "Whoever gets it right gets a new gooebo", says Guido. Now say that really fast!

Photo below copyright Centerline Alfa, obviously.

[user459]

Italian alphabet contains twenty-one letters.

A B C D E F G H I K L M N O P Q R S T U V Z

no J,K,W,X,or Y

Notice there is no "Y" in Spider, as so many want to spell it SPYDER.

Italian Slang Dictionary


Now if we could only correct ALPHA and ROMERO!!!

Nice guibo! (this "G" is a has the "J" sound as in Giulia"; "GH" is the hard "G" sound as in Ghia.)

That's all for the Italian lesson for today.

[Subtle]

I think it was the German language that started using the "Y" spelling of spyder--back in the days when it meant a light and fast horse-drawn buggy.

Then some Brits have followed.

Terrry--thanks for the instruction on the Italian alFabet. I did three years of Latin but had forgotten all of it - including this.

[alfazagato]

Subtle is correct, spyder was a German word for a lightweight sporty horse drawn carriage and I understand that Porsche were one of the first to use it after the war to mean a lightweight sport car. I am not aware of the Brits using it.
But half a tick, Maserati uses Spyder, so do Ferrari and, I believe, Lancia. Fiat web sites use both just to be even handed. I was roundly corrected on the BB latterly and changed my car names as a result. However, what about whisky and yacht both foreign words in every day usage in Italian indeed Lancia have a model in their range called Ypsilon too. Epsilon would have been OK in Italian.
As this is clearly not an Italian word are Alfa incorrect in using the word Spider despite the alphabetical evidence?
Sorry to take up the thread with this rambling.