Tire tubes

[davisfamily]

Thanks to George GTD for the advice and the clues to my wheels.
My trusted tire shop agrees that my Giulietta's original Borrani steel wheels require tubes.
I've found some on eBay for about $13.00. Not really name brand stuff though. Does anyone know of a good brand of 15" tire tubes?
Dan

[phila3885]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davisfamily Thanks to George GTD for the advice and the clues to my wheels. My trusted tire shop agrees that my Giulietta's original Borrani steel wheels require tubes. I've found some on eBay for about $13.00. Not really name brand stuff though. Does anyone know of a good brand of 15" tire tubes? Dan

[pathung]

LESS than Vredesteins? That's a steal.

[phila3885]

I just checked-Performance Plus of Long Beach has BF Goodrich Radial T/A's in 155/80-15 for $71.
BF Goodrich Radial T/A Size 155/80-15 - Performance Plus Tire

[davisfamily]

I have some tires, 4 Pirelli Cintauros, thanks to Mike4C1300. I was told that the rims will not hold the tires, and that they must have tubes. I am looking to source tubes, not tires!
Dan

[DaveB]

You should be able to buy tubes from any British car supplier, like Moss motors etc. Any British car with 15" wire wheels requires the same tubes. Austin Healey's as an example. Moss or Victoria British should have tubes at a good price. Dave Brohan in Chicago

[Dick Steinkamp]

Michelin tubes at Coker for $26 ea...

15E13 145/175R15 TR-13 MICH TUBE - Coker Tire

What is the story on original steel wheels needing tubes?

[phila3885]

Before I went tubeless, I also checked with the local Firestone dealer and they said they could order tubes for 15" rims, $10 apiece I believe.
Cheers-

Phil

[davisfamily]

So, is the consensus that I should find name brand tubes? I mean, it is the tires that still count, right? There is a Firestone dealer in Augusta. And is it true that I can buy one tube to fit a 13, 14, and 15" rim?

[Dick Steinkamp]

I had always heard that putting a tube in a tubeless radial tire creates heat and that it shouldn't be done. I found this on the web...

"Q: I have been told not to install a tube into a radial tire, but no one knows why. Can you tell me if it is not good practice to install a tube in a radial tire?

A: It is a bad idea to put a tube into any tubeless tire. Tubeless tires have a considerably more robust construction than tube tires, which need the help of a tube of air to maintain sidewall stability and air pressure.

If we put a tube into a tubeless tire, there will be huge amounts of friction between the side of the tube and the inner liner of the tire. With every rotation, the sidewall will flex and rub against the tube. Friction equals heat. Heat is the ultimate enemy of tires, especially sidewalls. They are the weakest point of construction. Eventually the result will be BANG!"

Wheels.ca - Installing inner tube in tubeless radial is a dangerous move - Canada's Most Trusted Auto Resource

[davisfamily]

OK, so is there a way around this? Is there a way to fix a tire to the wheel that will allow a tubeless tire on a wheel that requires a tube? How can I tell that my tires need or do not need tubes? "R" on the sidewall, right? For radial? And a bias-ply tire would require a tube?
Call me if needed: 706-986-9965

[Dick Steinkamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davisfamily OK, so is there a way around this? Is there a way to fix a tire to the wheel that will allow a tubeless tire on a wheel that requires a tube? How can I tell that my tires need or do not need tubes? "R" on the sidewall, right? For radial? And a bias-ply tire would require a tube? Call me if needed: 706-986-9965

[davisfamily]

Well, my dad got the tire mounted today with the tube in it. He brought up a good point, though; we are only using the wheels and tires to roll the car onto the trailer and then around the garage and driveway, under four-leg power (my dad's and mine!). So, I don't think the friction issue will come up. Anyway, here is the rim before the tire was cut off(!). I plan on getting it blasted or at least painted. Then, on some upcoming weekend, we'll go get the other three off the car and get them mounted. Waiting for June 22!
GTD would have to chime in about the rims not holding the tires...
Thanks for the help.

[Gordon Raymond]

Here are my observations and experiences over the last 40 years or so. A study of a tubless rim and a tube type rim in the same size will show the tubless rim has an extra"ledge" to prevent the tire pealing off the inside with a blow out, or fast flat. The tube type rim has symmetrical bead retention.
I have used tubeless tires with tubes on both Alfa's and Ferrari's in racing for many years. Here are the reasons. Ferrari wire wheels used with a rim rubber to "seal" the spokes with a tubless tire are a joke. They will leak. These rims were designed for a tube type tire. Modern tubeless tires like the XWX Michelin need a tube with these old rims. Yes, slightly more heat is generated, as the tire and tube flex. No, this is not a problem. On the track OR street pressures can be adjusted using a pyrometer across the tread section to arrive at a pressure where the heat is uniform, just as in racing. NO, these pressures will NOT be the same as the same tire without a tube. My 275 GTB Ferrari runs 33 lbs cold rear and 32 lbs cold front pressures for uniform tread temperatures hot on the street or track with 205 x 14 XWX tubless tires with tubes. With OEM Dunlop tube type tires, back in the day, the same size, Ferrari wanted higher pressures in front, AND higher pressure on all 4 than 33/32 lbs.
On to Alfas. Giulietta and Giulia rims were designed for tube type 155 x15 Pirelli or Michelin tires. The wheels have the spider spot welded to the rim. Look for yourself. The areas between the welds are sealed with... paint. Not good. More over, some of these wheels are known to crack, sometimes around these spot welds. Again you could use a rim rubber and hope for the best, but it is easier to use a good quality tube in your tubeless tire. Contact Coker Tire for quality tubes that will work in this application. Again, there will be some additional heat build up, but is is not much, and can be adjusted as discussed above.
My Ausca spider has real magnesium MiniLites from years ago. The Goodyear Bluestreak Sports Car Specials have given way to Bridgestone RE 950 , 185/65 R15 86H tubeless tires, with tubes. The magnesium wheels are porous. Tubes seal them. It works fine.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Thanks, Gordon.