Special Order Giulia Ti - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #46 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Locopo View Post
Still, it's great news that AR will be accepting customer build orders as that is the opposite of what my local dealer had stated to me back in September.
Perhaps that was the truth back in September. When we (my dealer and I) started this order, my dealer didn't know if it would work or not. This is really big news that the special order has been accepted. Now others can sally forth down the paved trail.

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post #47 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by andylarry View Post
Hey Guys, and Gals, how about you consider posting the build sheets. The information would be useful with tracking package / option combinations that are accepted by Alfa. Also, information on how long it takes from order, to delivery.
Order placed: 12-13-2016
Current status: JB (built, in transit)
Spec:
19" Ti sport package
Ti performance package
Harman Kardon audio
Vulcano black metallic on black interior

I asked 3 dealers until I found one that was willing (or able) to do special orders. After some time I think more dealers will be able to provide this option.
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post #48 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 10:56 AM
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Now we are waiting for the start of European Delivery, so that we stand a chance of getting a manual shift.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #49 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Del View Post
Now we are waiting for the start of European Delivery, so that we stand a chance of getting a manual shift.


I dont think that European Delivery will make any difference to offering the manual. I think the only way that happens is hearing enough complaints from customers and dealers
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post #50 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 12:25 PM
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The cars are being sold in Europe with both the flappy paddles and the manual shift, IIRC, and the manual shift was approved and certified for the USA, just withheld from sales at this time.

You are correct that it may take higher sales of the car, and pressure from potential customer, to make them sell the manual shift here. From the above discussion about how customer build orders are being accepted, you would think that the manual could eventually be included in that custom build process.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #51 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 01:36 PM
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I agree that if all the dealers will be able to accept customer orders, it would help the manual be offered here in the US. I fully believe that it wasn't the customer's disinterest in the manual for AR USA to reverse their manual only decision, but rather that the dealers were squawking about it. Plus look at what most of the dealers have ordered with their initial allocation of QV's. Most of them completely loaded and in red.

The fact that both transmissions were federalized and are not being offered is still mind boggling to me. As a manual driver who has never owned an automatic, even I thought that the manual only was a bit foolish. But then to reverse that at the last second and not offer it all was even dumber as we know the transmission is developed and federalized...why piss off a large segment of customers whom you have been telling for over a year that the car would be available in a manual.

Arrrgh....sorry, Im ranting again.
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post #52 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 02:09 PM
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Welllllll.....

Back when I participated in the Alfa on-phone survey to help them formulate a strategy to return to the US market, much of their emphasis was on utilizing their substantial success in racing. It came across to me that the powers-that-be within Alfa had decided that, if Alfa were to succeed, it needed to be within an unambiguously defined market niche. Cars bred for racing that you can drive on the street.

Historically, Alfa has understood the no-compromise approach to successful racing. They rarely stumbled into masses of chrome, sloppy automatic transmissions, busy interiors, etc. So - if you felt you must stay true to "speed, handling, tradition", why would you include a component that was proven to slow the car down? So what if a few potential customers insist they want tailfins, curb scrapers, and moon hubcaps?

In a few years will Alfa be viewed as having identified a clear path back to success, or one that failed when they tried to make everyone happy?

And no, I would not like to replace the five-speed in my 59 Touring.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #53 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 02:55 PM
Del
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The major (if not entire) intent of a car manufacturer is to sell more cars. If the darn manual is certified, and some portion of potential owners want it, why not bring in a few with it. Doesn't make sense not to, Don's argument notwithstanding.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #54 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 04:28 PM
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I think they pulled back on the manual transmission because it was a crappy unit. European reviewed uniformly panned it. In contrast, the automatic is SOTA.
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post #55 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 04:40 PM
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Actually, total volume is rarely the goal, unless you are focused on making cheap, low-margin cars. Think Walmart.

Alfa has always been a niche product. Brand positioning is critical in this game. Done correctly, a manufacturer becomes the very best in one niche before branching off into other niches. What are the best Alfas made since WW2? Performance coupes. The spiders sold very well, of course, but pure convertibles are a very small piece of the potential pie.

If they are lucky enough to be successful with this small range of cars, we might see spin-offs. They certainly don't have an unlimited budget to get it wrong several times before getting it right. The QV is just almost "right".

So - I applaud Alfa for offering the distillation of what they do best, first. One can spin off from there. The Giulia QV simply has two too many doors.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
The major (if not entire) intent of a car manufacturer is to sell more cars. If the darn manual is certified, and some portion of potential owners want it, why not bring in a few with it. Doesn't make sense not to, Don's argument notwithstanding.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 30 years) Nearly 50 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #56 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 04:43 PM
Del
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Depends on what they didn't like in the transmission. If it is just the slower action in comparison to the flappy paddles, yeah, I see that, but if it is something else, who knows.

The 6 speed manual we had in the Giulietta we drove in Italy was good, no problems. If it is similar to that, I'd go for that, basically the same as what we have now.

Would be interesting to see a listing of roadsters, coupes (GTs), and sedans sales through the years, here and abroad.

One thing I liked was that in general the post war sedan versions of the coupes had similar performance. Kind of Q ships in intent. Coupes are not the biggest sellers now compared to 4 door cars which are either sedans (Plain Jane and Sport) or SUV/Crossover styles. Unless they decide to keep the sales figures very low with specialty vehicles with esoterically high enough prices to support that level, similar to Ferrari, et al, they will need the high sales of more middle performance (and utilitarian) vehicles.

They have stated a need for pretty high sales figures, much higher than from that of just specialty cars. I do think they will need those high sales of sedans, SUVs, and Crossovers to support their specialty versions. In a sense, I see a resemblance to the successful growth of Subaru, but in general a higher level all around.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 02-23-2017 at 05:20 PM.
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post #57 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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There's another aspect to this transmission debate. EPA. American Environmental Protection Association. The entire group of cars that a manufacturer sells has to meet a certain MPG number. The average car meets this value, barely. In order to have a powerful, gas guzzling monster, they need to have a fuel sipping conservative car that equals the balance. AR doesn't have any fuel sipping granny cars. The auto may satisfy this EPA value system while the manual may tip the scales. AR might need to wait, and sell enough granny car that allow for our teenager cars. The EPA frowns on manual transmissions by the way.
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post #58 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:08 AM
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I get the argument that the new automatics are more efficient, faster, and sell at a much higher volume than a manual, however I would still choose any crappy manual over the best automatic. But that's me and I get that I am in the minority however I do believe that AR USA could have gotten at least a 10 percent take rate on the manual and I think that's conservative.

And I would have been annoyed but somewhat understood the decision to make the Giulia automatic only if Alfa didn't tease us for over a year that the manual would be available and downright bragging that the QV would be manual only. And that said, I do want this car so much that I will try the automatic QV to see if I can at least live with it....and if I can I will get it.
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post #59 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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I read other forums and the talk over there is that the Giulia failed the crash test. The clutch pedal was damaging feet, or something like that. I like my feet right where they are, attached to my legs.
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post #60 of 125 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:19 PM
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I think the manual in Europe is only available on the diesel engines.
All of this gossip and rumours is so girly. There is NO manual transmission available in NA, thats it. Take it or leave it. Some of you really need to get over it already. Ferrari has no manual transmissions....just sayin'

1969 1750 Spider*Giorgia?*
1970 1750 Spider*magica*--mi ha lasciato per un altro,luglio 2015
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