Alfa Romeo and "alternative facts" - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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Alfa Romeo and "alternative facts"

Remember how Alfa promised they'd offer a true manual transmission (with clutch pedal) in the USA on the Giulia Quadrifoglio? Well, a friend of mine just bought a Quad, but even though he requested the full manual, he had to settle for the paddle-shift "manu-matic"; he was told by the dealership that Alfa decided not to bring any manual-trans cars over after all.

Too bad for the three or four people left in this country (such as myself) who only want cars with manual transmissions. Not that I can afford any new car, much less an Giulia Quad - but I do wish our favorite car company would have been more upfront with us about their business decisions.

Dave Spiegelthal, Centreville, VA
'91 164S, '79 Alfetta GT, '85 Fiat X1/9, '71 Fiat 850 Spider
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 09:52 PM
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Kind of Old actually unfortunately from a news perspective. Car still rocks with paddle shifters (Hi from Silver Spring, MD).

Ive spent most of my life racing... The rest I just wasted
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 11:29 PM
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I've got to admit that it is kind of bad on AR's part to say one thing and do another. As a child, I was taught that this called "lying" and it is not acceptable behavior.

But, having two years and 24,000 miles in my 4C and a short test drive in the new Giulia Quad, all I can say is, "Don't knock it until you've tried it." It's a pretty slick setup, and, it will be the future of all performance cars.

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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
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As I wrote in another thread on one of the Fiat forums:

1) Manual transmission (with clutch pedal) makes you a better driver because you are more engaged in the operation and control of the car, and you will tend to modulate your speed with the throttle, and leave more distance between you and the next guy, rather than the "modern" method of "jerk forward, ride the next guy's bumper, hit the brakes, jerk forward, hit the brakes,....."

2) Manual transmission gives you more options in really bad weather.

3) Manual transmission gives you many more options when something doesn't work right. You can roll-start or push-start the car, you can operate in "limp-home' mode for some failures, etc. In an automatic car, you're usually dead in the water when something goes south.

Personally, I don't give a rat's *** about the future of performance cars, I prefer to live in the past, drive cars that I (not the computer) control, and enjoy my drive at regular highway or town speeds. Those of you who feel the need for 3800 lbs. of gadgets and 505 hp, have a ball. To each his own.
GV27, Del, sportiva and 2 others like this.

Dave Spiegelthal, Centreville, VA
'91 164S, '79 Alfetta GT, '85 Fiat X1/9, '71 Fiat 850 Spider
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DSpieg View Post
Personally, I don't give a rat's *** about the future of performance cars, I prefer to live in the past, drive cars that I (not the computer) control, and enjoy my drive at regular highway or town speeds. Those of you who feel the need for 3800 lbs. of gadgets and 505 hp, have a ball.
Dave:

Personally I share your opinions about manual vs slushbox. But if Alfa wants to sell cars and make money, they can't live in the past. The target market for 2017 Alfa Romeos are people of an age group who simply don't drive manual transmission cars. And don't want to learn.

Combine that with a US DOT that charges $ millions to certify each version of a drivetrain, and it would end up costing Fiat-Chrysler a bundle to sell just a handful of manual Alfas.

Jay Mackro
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Last edited by Alfajay; 01-24-2017 at 07:30 AM.
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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Jay, I understand all that. Alfa can market whatever they think will sell, all I was saying is that I'm a member of the lunatic fringe that still prefers manual transmissions, and am disappointed that they won't even try to sell them here. I'm aware that people like me are not even on their radar scope.

My rant was mainly to point out that manual transmissions have several real-world advantages that most people are not even aware of.

I will not drag ugly politics onto this nice forum, but will just say that the current Alfas are not MY Alfas, and never will be

BTW judging from your signature line, I like your taste in cars.

Dave Spiegelthal, Centreville, VA
'91 164S, '79 Alfetta GT, '85 Fiat X1/9, '71 Fiat 850 Spider
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:03 AM
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I'm a member of the lunatic fringe that still prefers manual transmissions
Well people like you and I are just going to have to resign ourselves to driving older cars. Fewer and fewer contemporary cars will be introduced with manual gearboxes.

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they won't even try to sell them here
Does FCA sell three pedal Alfa Giulias in any market (e.g., Europe)?

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My rant was mainly to point out that manual transmissions have several real-world advantages that most people are not even aware of.
Right, unaware of, and as such, un-interested in taking advantage of. Say a millennial encounters a dead battery on his manual transmission Giulia - you think he's going to have his buddies push it while he pops the clutch? The app on his phone that sends a text to AAA, along with GPS coordinates, is today's preferred solution.

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BTW judging from your signature line, I like your taste in cars.
I should add my 1970 BMW 2800CS to the list.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 01-24-2017 at 09:06 AM.
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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"Say a millennial encounters a dead battery on his manual transmission Giulia - you think he's going to have his buddies push it while he pops the clutch? The app on his phone that sends a text to AAA, along with GPS coordinates, is today's preferred solution."

Bingo. Meanwhile, I've push-started my old junker and am already home, nice and warm.

"I should add my 1970 BMW 2800CS to the list."

Yes you should

Dave Spiegelthal, Centreville, VA
'91 164S, '79 Alfetta GT, '85 Fiat X1/9, '71 Fiat 850 Spider
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:17 AM
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"I should add my 1970 BMW 2800CS to the list."

Yes you should
^^ Yes, you should!

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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post

Does FCA sell three pedal Alfa Giulias in any market (e.g., Europe)?


yes they sell, but I think its time for auto also here, its so much better, kinda odd NA wants manual and Europe automatic when its was wice versa in the old days, well Im not sure still how many takes automatic here..... I would take it anyway, its reviewed so much better than manual

-Antti: --ex Alfas:155 2.0 8V '92,155 2.0 16V '96,156 V6 '98,156 V6 '02
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:53 AM
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@DSpieg....so if I understand your rant correctly...people that buy an Alfa QV or any auto/DCT/PDK etc. are people that a: don't know how to drive a manual & b: don't care to learn?
if that is the case....then boy are you WAY off base...so much so that to try and have a discussion would seem pointless...So as you did state correctly to each his own..
personally I just picked up a QV because I always wanted an Italian car after 40+ years of German cars...ALL of which were manual transmission cars...
If the QV would have been a manual as initially stated I would have been happier...but having driven the car I like it very much so far...
This would seem to be the unfortunate reality....as a matter of statistics only 17% of any of the new M cars have been ordered as manuals....very sad indeed...happy that they still offer it but I'm not thrilled with them after having had an F80....
Yes if I get stuck I can't push start it, I'll will probably have to have it towed....but then my wife can pick me up in anyone of my other manual cars...
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:56 AM
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We had a Norwegian exchange student, and par for the course, she got her driver's license here, as it is less expensive here by a long shot than in Norway. Anyway, she ended up learning on a stickshift car here, but complained that she didn't understand why people would drive a stickshift, when the automatic was so much easier. Well, when she got back to Norway and got her license there and bought a car, all she could afford at the time was a stickshift car. Later, she wrote us and said that she now understood why some liked stickshifts, as she now did. She allowed as how she did enjoy the shifting, and felt that in some Norwegian winter conditions, the stickshift car was easier to control. Wouldn't buy an automatic now. Had to laugh.

One question I have then, if the stickshift version is available in Europe, and was indeed certified for here in the States, could one import a stickshift version legally? Maybe a European delivery setup as they and other companys have had. Or just do it privately.

Del

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previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:08 PM
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But, having two years and 24,000 miles in my 4C and a short test drive in the new Giulia Quad, all I can say is, "Don't knock it until you've tried it." It's a pretty slick setup, and, it will be the future of all performance cars.
I haven't tried it in the Giulia, but I've driven a BMW with the same transmission. I'm knocking it. It's boring even if it may be technically faster. No point in buying a performance car and then selecting an option that takes much of the fun out of it.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:42 PM
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This reminds me of a Road & Track magazine writer's comments on the "Rev-matching" feature on a manual transmission Nissan 360Z: "Why would you want an automatic function to take over something you took time to learn and are proud of?"

BTW, I recently read that manual transmissions only account for 4% of new car sales in the U.S.


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.... No point in buying a performance car and then selecting an option that takes much of the fun out of it.


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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:43 PM
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I haven't tried it in the Giulia, but I've driven a BMW with the same transmission. I'm knocking it. It's boring even if it may be technically faster. No point in buying a performance car and then selecting an option that takes much of the fun out of it.
@nealric which BMW did you drive with the same ZF8 transmission?? I'm curious as I also have in the garage a 340xi M-Sport which has the ZF8 speed paddle shift...and it does not shift anywhere near the same as the QV.
Thanks
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