
03-27-2008, 02:18 AM
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Drives a GT1300Junior ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Delft, Holland - Europe.
Posts: 74
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This might be interesting to someone...
From:
Coys
At the "Techno Classica" on Saturday 29th March 2008 - Coys will auction the following:
Lot 325 1971 Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV - GTAm Specification by Autodelta
Registration no: n/a
Chassis no: AR2421455
Estimate: €48,000-60,000
Thanks to Carlo Chiti's Autodelta establishment and the racing skills of Jochen Rindt, Gianluigi Picchi, Andrea de Adamich, Carlo Facetti, Toine Hezemans and Gjis Van Lennep, Alfa Romeo dominated the European Touring Car Championship for many years, culminating in the 'ultimate' 1750/2000 GTAm which won the Championship in 1970 and 1971.
The GTAm was built to Group 2 Touring car regulations. Minimum production was 1,000 examples, and modifications were permitted using specially homologated factory-made tuning parts. Based on the 1750 GTV model of the time, the GTAm featured fibreglass panels and wing extensions, nine inch alloy racing wheels, a limited slip differential, and a fuel injected engine giving up to 240bhp from 2,000cc. Regulations required these race cars to run with full interiors and glass - not perspex - windows.
Chassis AR 2421455 left the factory as a 2000 GTV on 15th July 1971. Its Greek owner, a resident of Lausanne in Switzerland, then commissioned Autodelta to upgrade the car to GTAm specification, this work being finished in October the same year. The impressive specification included 13 inch Campagnolo magnesium alloy wheels, aluminium brake calipers, ventilated disc brakes, Koni shock absorbers, a 10/41 limited slip differential and up-rated front suspension, while the doors and boot lid were made of aluminium. The vendor informs us that these original parts are still fitted to the car. Power is supplied by the legendary four cylinder, twin camshaft 2.0 litre engine which, with race specification camshafts, carburettors and inlet and exhaust manifold, produces some 190bhp. Since a fresh rebuild by an Italian marque specialist the engine has only been tested for a mere 15 minutes and still needs to be run in. Described by the vendor as being in excellent condition throughout, this delightful machine is offered with the original bill of sale, a copy of the original Autodelta invoice, e-mail correspondence from the Alfa Romeo Register and an old ONS Wagenpass. A most competent entry for historic racing.
Fahrgestellnummer AR 2421455 verlie? die Fabrik als ein 2000 GTV am 15. Juli 1971. Der griechische Erstbesitzer miut Wohnsitz in Lausanne beauftragte Autodelta damit, das Auto zur GTAm-Spezifikation aufzurŸsten, was dann im Oktober des gleichen Jahres fertig gestellt wurde. Die eindrucksvolle Spezifikation enthielt 13 Zoll Campagnolo Magnesiumfelgen, Aluminium-BremssŠttel, bel?ftete Scheibenbremsen, Koni-Sto?dŠmpfer, eine 10/41 Sperre an der Hinterachse und Aluminium-TŸren und -Kofferraumdeckel. Diese Originalteile sind noch immer eingebaut. Der legendŠre Alfa-Vierzylinder mit den zwei obenliegenden Nockenwellen leistet hier ca. 190 PS und wurde bisher nach einer †berholung erst 15 Minuten getestet und mu? noch eingefahren werden. Der Einlieferer beschreibt den Wagen als in exzellentem Zustand und bietet ihn mit dem ursprŸnglichen Kaufvertrag, eine Kopie der Autodelta-Rechnung, einiger Korrespondenz sowie einem Šlteren ONS-Wagenpass an.
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03-28-2008, 02:07 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 111
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Greek/Swiss GTAm?
Well the vehicle offered does seem very interesting.
From the information given it does not seem 100% clear what engine this vehicle has. Is the engine a normal 'NORD' uprated to 190 bhp running special parts and carburettors or a GTAm type running special parts and carburettors or is there an error in the description?
Can you let us know what price the vehicle 'fetches' if sold etc?
Obviously there would be other questions to be answered to establish the originality of the car but what the hell lets 'go along for the ride'.
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03-29-2008, 08:30 AM
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Alfa & Zagato Aficionado
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bussum, The Netherlands
Posts: 470
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GTAm replica in Essen on the Techno Classica?
Quote 'The impressive specification included 13 inch Campagnolo magnesium alloy wheels, aluminium brake calipers, ventilated disc brakes, Koni shock absorbers, a 10/41 limited slip differential and up-rated front suspension, while the doors and boot lid were made of aluminium. The vendor informs us that these original parts are still fitted to the car. Power is supplied by the legendary four cylinder, twin camshaft 2.0 litre engine which, with race specification camshafts, carburettors and inlet and exhaust manifold, produces some 190bhp.' Unquote
Hello members,
I saw the car wednesday when I was at the Techno Classica in Essen. I had a quick glance at it and it seems nice from the outside. I didn't take a picture because I suspected it being a replica. It has the 2000 GTV rear lights and wide GTAm style fenders without the poprivets being visible. The wheels are wide too.
From the text above a question arises. Why does the text mention that 'The vendor informs us that these original parts are still fitted to the car'? Didn't they conduct some research as to (the origin and/or) the actual specification of the car themselves?
A twinplug engine/narrow head engine and/or the monosleeve type block or a sliding block rear axle is not mentioned in the text. Therefore the question raised by South Afrca would also be my question! And what about the estimated price? I would think it is cheap for a real GTAm?
Can anybody shed some light on this chassisnumber and it's history? I can't find it in the book 'Alfa Romeo GTA' by Maurizio Tabucchi nor in the book 'Alleggerita' by Tony Adriaensens.
Ciao, Olaf
__________________
Zagato_Olaf (Olaf Roeten)
Register Junior Zagato Holland
Part of www.alfaclub.nl
1977 Giulia Nuova Super 1600
1980 Sud 5M - scrapped
1974 GT 1300 Junior Bertone
1972 GT 1300 Junior Zagato
Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 03-30-2008 at 07:02 AM.
Reason: correction
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03-30-2008, 07:11 AM
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Alfa & Zagato Aficionado
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bussum, The Netherlands
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Picture of the car
Hello Alfisti,
Here is a picture of the car, courtesy of Classic Driver - HOME.
Ciao, Olaf
__________________
Zagato_Olaf (Olaf Roeten)
Register Junior Zagato Holland
Part of www.alfaclub.nl
1977 Giulia Nuova Super 1600
1980 Sud 5M - scrapped
1974 GT 1300 Junior Bertone
1972 GT 1300 Junior Zagato
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03-30-2008, 11:06 AM
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Drives a GT1300Junior ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Delft, Holland - Europe.
Posts: 74
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From the description given from Coys - it is not an original GTAm, but a period moddified (By Autodelta no less) GTV to a level approaching GTAm spec. Hence why it's pretty cheap - but no less of a car for it I think. The photos make it look lovely.
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03-31-2008, 06:59 AM
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Alfa & Zagato Aficionado
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bussum, The Netherlands
Posts: 470
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Don't get me wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1300GTJunior
From the description given from Coys - it is not an original GTAm, but a period moddified (By Autodelta no less) GTV to a level approaching GTAm spec. Hence why it's pretty cheap - but no less of a car for it I think. The photos make it look lovely.
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Hello Mark,
Don't get me wrong, given the specification this car will probably be great to drive. I will not dismiss it and it looked lovely when I had a glance at it on thursday! When contemplating the price and the nice external condition, it can't be a full spec Autodelta GTAm but it could be a great historic racingcar.
The point I was trying to make is that the discription of this car, will give rise to questions (at least with me) that could have been avoided if the text would have been more detailed.
For example;
What is the exact specification of the engine?
Who was the Italian marque specialist that rebuild the engine?
In what way was the front suspension uprated exactly?
Is the rear suspension stock 2000 GTV (except for the 10/41 final drive)?
What does 'The vendor informs us that these original parts are still fitted to the car' and 'discribed by the vendor as being in excellent condition throughout' mean?
Does the auctioneer have an opinion on the condition and originality of the car?
Was this car put in for auction at the last moment and is that the reason why the text was written like this?
That would have been some of the questions I asked before deciding to enter a bid on this car (if I had the money ). Because it's monday the 31st of March, the car has been in the auction. I wonder whether it was sold and for what price it went.
Ciao, Olaf
__________________
Zagato_Olaf (Olaf Roeten)
Register Junior Zagato Holland
Part of www.alfaclub.nl
1977 Giulia Nuova Super 1600
1980 Sud 5M - scrapped
1974 GT 1300 Junior Bertone
1972 GT 1300 Junior Zagato
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03-31-2008, 08:00 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belgium
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Olaf,
The can failed to meet the estimate and didn't sell.
Rgds,
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03-31-2008, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Germany
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GTAm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutodeltaGTA
Olaf,
The can failed to meet the estimate and didn't sell.
Rgds,
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Hello all,
i too gave the car a sharp look, this is what i have noticed:
- As usuall, it looked by far better on the pictures then live
- the roll cage was a "Heigo" (german), the design is ot of the 80th (maybe younger - but thats ok)
- The wide body parts were fittet on the car without the rivetts beeing seen,
the original Tank opening was formed into the back wing (in plastic, cheap work when you open the cap). Lots and lots of filler and other material under the paint in the fender areas(i knocked on all wide fenders)
- original 2 L dashboard and of course the big rearlights, original petrol tank
- Slidingblock backaxle suspention
- Frontwheels 9 x 13 "GTAm"
- Backwheels 9 or 10 x 13 "Tippo 33". Impossible to change wheels from back to front and vica verca
- non original door push buttons
Cant say something about the engine or enginebay, they keept it closed!
Auction result: estimated at 48.000 to 60.000 Euro the highest bid was 42.000 Euro - not sold regarding to Coys. I doubt even this figure, because at this auction and at the other Coys i witnessed at last years Oldtimer Grand Prix the auctinier was collecting bids with 100% no body even breathing.
My opinion: Of course you can run the car as ist is (when the engine realy fires up) but to be on the save side (for serious racing) I would dismantle engine, gearbox and backaxle to know whats going on. And than there is only a questionable body left without knowing something about stiffness, straightness and wheight.
If you beginn from scratch with a 2 l Nord engine it wont be more expensive than 65.000 Euro even with those "nice parts" - but than you have a super clean racer, 100% stiff and straight with lots of other nice parts this car does not have.
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03-31-2008, 03:50 PM
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I made some pics of this car in Essen
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03-31-2008, 04:11 PM
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Location: Sydney Australia
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Why is everybody getting upset about the 2000 style tail lights?. As explained it was a 2000 GTV that was sent to Autodelta and converted to GTAm specs.
Yes it is not one of the "sort after" works GTAm, but it is a Autodelta converted car with many of the right bits. You get what you pay for and if this car has any interesting period race history it would be an interesting purchase.
As for filler ... it is a RACE CAR  
Pete
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ps: Remember it's all just opinions 
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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03-31-2008, 04:19 PM
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Notice the Sliding block being used with a Y trunnion rather than the aluminum cross piece and a rodended tie rod. Wonder if its aluminum or steel.
FWIW
Ken
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Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1966 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
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03-31-2008, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kengta
Notice the Sliding block being used with a Y trunnion rather than the aluminum cross piece and a rodended tie rod. Wonder if its aluminum or steel.
FWIW
Ken
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Oh dear, Autodelta would never have installed it like that ... I now smell a rat 
Pete
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ps: Remember it's all just opinions 
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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03-31-2008, 04:52 PM
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Alfa & Zagato Aficionado
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bussum, The Netherlands
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Sliding block rear axle
Quote:
Originally Posted by kengta
Notice the Sliding block being used with a Y trunnion rather than the aluminum cross piece and a rodended tie rod. Wonder if its aluminum or steel.
FWIW
Ken
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Hello Ken,
This is another picture of a sliding block rear axle.
I can't see a difference, could you explain what you mean?
The source of this picture is obvious.
Ciao, Olaf
__________________
Zagato_Olaf (Olaf Roeten)
Register Junior Zagato Holland
Part of www.alfaclub.nl
1977 Giulia Nuova Super 1600
1980 Sud 5M - scrapped
1974 GT 1300 Junior Bertone
1972 GT 1300 Junior Zagato
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