#211 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2005, 07:16 AM
turbolarespider turbolarespider is offline
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Bruce
Combustion dymanics is a very tricky subject.

ALL other things being equal, a TS head should produce more torque than a single plug head for the reason you describe.

The problem is that ALL things will never be equal...

As we've all pointed out, the problem with combustion chamber is that it is a very large surface area, and has relatively low combustion speeds. One could have sped up the combustion by adding some turbulance in the intake, but at the detriment of power.

Modern 4V heads can burn quite a bit faster than the TS heads- that meaning flame front speed and NOT time. Most 4V heads have a lot of turbulance built into them, so the flame fronts move quickly. Add in the smaller combustion chamber space, well, a lot of things get better- with the smaller space, one can run a higher compression, even with the fast burn....

Lets just say that the Alfa past it's prime a while ago, even the TS head.

alfatwincam- it's not that the Nord engine isn't good- it is one of the best of the 20th century, I believe. But, it peaked in design concept in the mid-60's. To be passed in the racing world in the late 60's, and in the production car world in the mid-80's.

Talking with a Technical Specialist Alfisti here at F, he also mentioned one other problem with the engines base design- the free wet liner design would limit single plant production to about 100k/yr. Which is not nearly enough for a mass production engine.

Swede- don't throw away the low end performance! I need it! The autocrossing I do occasionally runs down to 3000rpm. And don't tell me to shift- I hate 2-1 shifts.

Eric
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2005, 10:03 AM
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Bah, learn to double clutch.
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GTV 2000 -77 [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/gtv]Pics[/URL] <= These are picture links you know...
75 Turbo -87 *sold* [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/75T-Modificata]Pics[/URL] <=
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2005, 11:56 AM
alfatwincam alfatwincam is offline
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alfatwincam- it's not that the Nord engine isn't good- it is one of the best of the 20th century, I believe. But, it peaked in design concept in the mid-60's. To be passed in the racing world in the late 60's, and in the production car world in the mid-80's
(I agree totally with your statement above ERIC).

Someone has fitted the alfa corse 16v norm asp engine in their 75 race car.Bearing in mind that this engine was transversly mounted in the alfa 155 DTM cars...This pushes 295 bhp at 8500 rpms and would work a treat if it was fitted into a 105 gt coupe and lick the bda,s .

Oh well ..its good to be silly sometimes....

Last edited by alfatwincam; 02-16-2005 at 11:58 AM.
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  #214 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2005, 03:38 PM
alfatwincam alfatwincam is offline
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Angelini 16v Engine

I was reading through my "Alleggirita" book last night and it states the 16v Angelini has a 90mm bore/50mm stroke. As we have been talking about bore/stroke combinations compared to the Ford BDA,s how did Franco Angelini go about getting a 90mm bore in the 116 series block when a monosleeve is really maxed out at 87 mm on the 2l block. We all know that in the ford BDA solid block its no mean feat but on the alfa wet liner block??
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  #215 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2005, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfatwincam
I was reading through my "Alleggirita" book last night and it states the 16v Angelini has a 90mm bore/50mm stroke. As we have been talking about bore/stroke combinations compared to the Ford BDA,s how did Franco Angelini go about getting a 90mm bore in the 116 series block when a monosleeve is really maxed out at 87 mm on the 2l block. We all know that in the ford BDA solid block its no mean feat but on the alfa wet liner block??
90 bore and 50 stroke = 1273cc (?) and also a 1.8 bore/stroke ratio ... a real screamer!!!!!

Now the 116 block ... is that a block that has the 2000cc bore centres?

Pete
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2005, 11:34 AM
alfatwincam alfatwincam is offline
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Angelini 16v engine.

The 116 block has the different bore centres to the old block. Its still very tight so I guess a special crank was made with special offset conrods?? to get 90mm bores to fit in the block. If you kept the long stroke of the 1750 GTAm 88.5 with the 90mm bore that would work out at 2252.cc! Now that would be interesting to see what power/torque that would produce!

Last edited by alfatwincam; 02-21-2005 at 11:39 AM.
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2005, 10:56 AM
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But someone has already put a 155 16v turbo engine in a bertone! Roberto Giordanelli! But it was the Aurelio Lamperdi twin cam FIAT engine that was also used in the Lancia Delta Integrale and Fiat Coupe.
It pushes out 500bhp coupled to the standard Alfa 105 gearbox.

I think there are some fotos of the car in his website
http://www.roberto-giordanelli.com/
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  #218 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2005, 02:39 PM
alfatwincam alfatwincam is offline
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Yes JPV I have seen robertos car race many times in the uk but its really a FIAT/Lancia engine and If I was to go the turbo route for a GTAm/wide bodied bertone gt I would do it with a proper ALFA engine. The old nord engine or the 75 twinspark. The 155 DTM 16v ALFA CORSE engine is from the same family as the FIAT/LANCIA box of bits.
Its a shame though to see Roberto giordanelli selling his turbo beast as he provided some entertaining action on the uk race scene.
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  #219 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2005, 03:04 PM
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Andrew.b Andrew.b is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfatwincam
alfatwincam- it's not that the Nord engine isn't good- it is one of the best of the 20th century, I believe. But, it peaked in design concept in the mid-60's. To be passed in the racing world in the late 60's, and in the production car world in the mid-80's
(I agree totally with your statement above ERIC).

Someone has fitted the alfa corse 16v norm asp engine in their 75 race car.Bearing in mind that this engine was transversly mounted in the alfa 155 DTM cars...This pushes 295 bhp at 8500 rpms and would work a treat if it was fitted into a 105 gt coupe and lick the bda,s .

Oh well ..its good to be silly sometimes....
Errr.... All 155 DTM cars were 2.5 V6 engines mounted north south - not tranverse... I think you mean 155 group.N or super touring.

Andrew
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  #220 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2005, 04:34 PM
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Andrew,

Gianni Giudici actually ran a 2.0L 16V 155 TS in the 1993 DTM amongst the 2.5L cars. After a few races the car was wrecked. So maybe you can consider that a DTM car as well ?
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  #221 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2005, 08:34 AM
alfatwincam alfatwincam is offline
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155 group n/super touring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew.b
Errr.... All 155 DTM cars were 2.5 V6 engines mounted north south - not tranverse... I think you mean 155 group.N or super touring.

Andrew
I stand corrected Andrew!
Would be unique to mount that group n 16v engine in a bertie coupe and also piss off the purists! 290 bhp!
Would need to be an IT boffin to figure out how to programme the engine from that OLD tech laptop.
I wonder if the 2l 16v Angelini engine fitted in a bertie coupe would be able to run in the tophat series in the uk?

Last edited by alfatwincam; 02-24-2005 at 08:40 AM.
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  #222 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2005, 11:19 AM
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Angelini 16 valve cylinder head on 105/115 2.0lt block (I think).
Takis.
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  #223 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2005, 12:19 PM
Jim K. Jim K. is offline
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You guys want to see some more GOOD stuff?? Go to http://www.lanciaflavia.it/annunci/i...h=ALFA%20ROMEO
and scroll 2/3 down the list, to June 16 2004. Even if you don't speak Italian, you'll understand 16v, sliding block, Colotti etc. You'll definitely understand the picture and the price....55kEuros!!!! What-a-machine!!!!
If that's not enough, go to http://www.moreschi.info/auto.htm and check out the 105 with the Angelini motor!(No price for this one-maybe its cheap!!!)
Enjoy!
Jim K.
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Old 03-01-2005, 07:47 AM
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Barn find pics

Here's some way cool pics of John's alias "camcar77" barn find. I'm just helping John post these pic's. So John has to tell the story...

Cheers, Nick
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Old 03-01-2005, 07:48 AM
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more pics from camcar77
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