GTAm

[dretceterini]

Cars like this do not impress me, no matter how quick they are. Anyone can stuff a modern motor into an old car and make it faster.

[Berlinista]

Actually, a couple of years ago I made a carbon copy of the Hezemans Jarama winning GTam, (GTam being the correct spelling) Everything was exactly as the car used to be, save for the engine. This was a heap of a car, lots of junk and rust, which made it look alle the more original ( ) EVERYONE thought it a real one...
As no records were kept, you actually CAN build a real one.....They just took one off the line!
For all the necessary parts, cheap, go to www.christiano.nl .
My car cost maybe 10000 dollars, (remember, no Sa engine or whatever) . FIA cage, LSD, etc. included, and was traded in for a really neat Berlina! All the parts are out here, I even had GENUINE GTam panels. Copies actually look much better!!!
You can find pics of Hezemans' car in Allegerita...
BTW, I used 6.5 j Montreal wolfrace wheels running 205/70/14 tires instead of the real deal, which is now again available from www.heinbrand.com . Can't find pics yet on their site , but saw 'em advertised in Thoroughbred and Classic Cars and in Classic and Sportscars . Alu instead of Magnesium. Nice price too...

[164QV]

LOL: "save for the engine" - so what exactly do you mean by: "you actually CAN build a real one". Have you read this thread from the beginning?

[Berlinista]

...I read most of it..there are several real ones here in Holland, certified Gtam's. And putting mine next to it, having the neccesary Autodelta parts etc... No big deal save underhood.
Chassis Nr's were all kinds, according to Allegerita. Well, that's my source...
And, save for the $$$$$ for a real engine ( I can get a 16 V Sovralimentata head for 15000,- Dollars if I feel like shaking up... Not that I have that kind of change..) you COULD build something NOBODY can DISPROVE.....
Right?

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dretceterini Cars like this do not impress me, no matter how quick they are. Anyone can stuff a modern motor into an old car and make it faster.

[papajam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berlinista ...(GTam being the correct spelling)...

[genericwood]

Jim, I have not idea the correct spelling. But doesn't the 1967 date bring the whole museum sign into question? My '69 GTV race car was certainly never a GTAm, but with the same grill and the same flares, it looks much the same! Now if I could just get some 13" wheels to fit over the lower ball joint on my drop spindles!

Erik

[PSk]

Here is a link where we discuss the name: GTAm Info and another GTAm

The alessagio maggiorato (enlarged bore)? option does not make sense to me as both the 1300 and 1600's were just called GTA's ... thus surely the 1600 GTA should have been a GTAam (assuming that the 1600 does indeed have a larger bore than a 1300 ? ...).

Anyway it just adds to the mystique of the car ...

Pete

[164QV]

"Right?" - no.

"No big deal save underhood". I think whats under the hood is a big deal to most Alfisti. It sounds to me, that you're arguing that you could built something that LOOKS like a GTAm - sure you could do that - but thats really not the point. People on this board are very much aware of the subtle differences that makes a GTAm what it is - and thats really what this thread is about.

"Chassis Nr's were all kinds, according to Allegerita". Maybe so, but if you want to built a replica - theres really only on chassis no. that will go - that is the 1750 US version. Why? because thats whats defined in the FIA homologation. If you want to built something that LOOKS like a GTAm - sure, use whatever. If you want to build a replica true to the original, and being allowed FIA papers - you need to start with a 1750 US serial number.

As to the whole GTAm vs GTAM vs GTam vs gTaM story - it really makes no sense. Nobody knows the correct spelling - theres no source to prove it, so please dont claim that one spelling is more correct than the others. There are arguments for one or the other, and I think we know them all by now. And by the way; Alfa probably could care less in those days as to the spelling - and probably today as well, regarding the sign from Museo Storico. Its a racecar - its history speaks for itself.

"Cars like this do not impress me, no matter how quick they are. Anyone can stuff a modern motor into an old car and make it faster."

Couldnt agree more - reminds me of this thread. Replica vs. Not.

[Berlinista]

Jorgen,
Well, you are right in most counts.
And yes, what's underhood IS important.
But then, like you said already, Alfa couldn't care less about what was original.
My Am was AT LEAST as fast as the Hezemans original, with a modified Nord engine, that was built using time proven components. With the correct rear axle the car ran a true 240 km/h. Alfa , or rather Autodelta used all kinds of engine configurations as 'factory', and private drivers and shops as Conrero built their own versions. Who's to say what was deemed 'original' ?
With a short 8/43 ratio it did no more than 175 at 7500 rpm, but did 100 to 200 kmh in exactly 10 sec. the car was FAST! Anyhow, Allegerita nowhere states that only Ch. Nr's from an american 1750 were used solely. Info on that please?
On another note, someone made a remark on the fitment of the 13 inch wheels!
Good question! does anyone know if an 8 or 9 j 13 incher will just fit on a 2.0 upright? What do I have to modify? Or do I simply fit spacers?
I'm thinking of buying a set of these copies I mentioned earlier, for yet another car.

[164QV]

Quote:

Allegerita nowhere states that only Ch. Nr's from an american 1750 were used solely. Info on that please?

[MichaelB]

Jorgen

Can you post the link to the homologation forms on the FIA site, I am afraid I cannot find them


many thanks

Michael Beattie
N.Ireland

1967 Sprint GTV

[Berlinista]

I'd like to see that too. Amazing, a 40 page homologation document.
Documents for other cars I have seen are much simpler and maybe a few pages.
Anyhow, having just finished a 68 Giulia super Historic Rally car, according to FIA rules, it's amazing what you are allowed to change. No seam welding and such, but you can do a LOT!
( Proud to say, the car won it's very first Rallysprint it entered as a test 4 weeks ago....)

[borrani]

Well, Berlinista, you must start a new thread so you can post a bunch of pics of your 68 Giulia Super Historic Rally car. The sooner the better!

Steve S.
Seattle, WA
NWARC
2005 AROC convention site
"Share the Experience"

[Gary Williams]

[quote=164QV

As to the whole GTAm vs GTAM vs GTam vs gTaM story - it really makes no sense. Nobody knows the correct spelling - theres no source to prove it, so please claim that one spelling is correct. There are arguments for one or the other, and I think we know them all by now. And by the way; Alfa probably could care less in those days as to the spelling - and probably today as well, regarding the sign from Museo Storico. Its a racecar - its history speaks for itself.

[/QUOTE]

Seems to me that the manufacturer's preference ought to be enough. Alfa built the cars, so they get to put the names they want on them, spelled the way they want. To think otherwise would be like telling me I don't know how to spell my daughter's name because we chose "Hillarie" instead of the more conventional "Hilary" or "Hillary."

The Alfa Museum sign is a good indication of the correct spelling of GTAm. Another is the offical book of the museum, titled simply, "Alfa Romeo History Museum." I have a copy. It was presented to my boss, the CEO of Calma Company, in the 1980's when he met with the senior management of Alfa Romeo. He was concluding a sale of our CAD/CAM machines.

Knowing my interest in Alfa, I had a GTV and GTC at the time, when my boss returned from Milan, he gave me the book. On pages 106 and 107 are pictures of GTA's and two GTAm's. The caption on one reads: "The other pictures show the Giulia GTA and the 1750 GTAm, leaders in touring-class racing during the sixties."

That's two factory references to the name, both spelled the same way. And both references are in places that matter to the company's image makers -- the museum and a coffee-table book about the museum's cars. What more is needed?

Gary Williams