Oil leak at front of engine - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
conedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 3,255
Oil leak at front of engine

Has anyone had an issue like this with a nord engine?

I installed a remote oil cooler and oil filter on my '76 Spider, and saw what appeared to be an oil leak at the bottom of the adapter that screws on at the original filter location. Removed adapter, cleaned, new O-ring, but the drips continued. After placing the car on jack stands, running the engine, laying underneath, and looking for the assignable cause, it appeared the oil was coming from above the adapter at the mechanical tachometer drive. Removed the tach.drive, replaced the gasket, but still drips. Replaced the tach. drive seal, still drips, so ran the engine and with some under the car contortion and a mirror, finally saw oil seeping from a water pump stud & nut next to the tach. drive. The oil comes from a small hole in the front engine cover, then into the water pump to the tach. drive gear. I removed the water pump, inspected everything, and replaced with a new gasket and Permatex Ultra-Grey sealant. Upon reflection, it almost seems like there should be an O-ring at the engine cover - water pump joint.

My morning task is to replace the radiator and assorted parts and run the engine - hoping the oil leak has been cured, and my 78 year old back can have a rest....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

George Schweikle

1976 Spider (Dedicated Autocrosser, "SPICA, No Carbs")
1991 Spider Veloce (Retirement cruiser)
Scuderia Non Originale

Last edited by conedriver; 04-21-2017 at 06:38 AM.
conedriver is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:25 AM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Gordon Raymond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northfield, Illinois
Posts: 9,543
The seal in the tach drive replaced George? I use Viton. There is NO oil pressure at the tack drive / water pump. Splash lubrication.
First photo is viton seal in drive. Second shows big hole for splash oil lube in pump body for tach drive and little hole near drive hole for oil drainback.
NO oil pressure at the pump.
Attached Images
  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gordon Raymond
Illinois SNO Alfa Chapter Director
Illinois SNO Ferrari Chapter Director
and sometimes, CONFUSED AND INCORRECT, but Larry helps me out.
Now:
Illinois Chapter Director AND Charter Member of THE CONFUSED AND INCORRECT
Gordon Raymond is offline  
post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
conedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 3,255
Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the pictures. I also have some spare pieces, and compared these to what is on the car. I replaced the tach drive seal with one from Centerline.

I ran the car for 20 minutes, and the leak is apparently cured. The only difference is that I used a thin water pump gasket last time the engine was apart, and the one I used this time was quite thick; very similar to the ones used for SPICA intake manifolds. But...this shouldn't really make a difference, right?. Maybe the Alfa gods are just testing me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Raymond View Post
The seal in the tach drive replaced George? I use Viton. There is NO oil pressure at the tack drive / water pump. Splash lubrication.
First photo is viton seal in drive. Second shows big hole for splash oil lube in pump body for tach drive and little hole near drive hole for oil drainback.
NO oil pressure at the pump.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

George Schweikle

1976 Spider (Dedicated Autocrosser, "SPICA, No Carbs")
1991 Spider Veloce (Retirement cruiser)
Scuderia Non Originale
conedriver is offline  
 
post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:44 PM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Gordon Raymond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northfield, Illinois
Posts: 9,543
The only place the WP gasket wants to leak oil is near that drive, either input hole or the drain back. NOW, it is possible that the little steel rubbing pin INSIDE the tack drive hole in the WP body has fallen out. (Don't ask). If it has, or is AWOL, the drive will leak oil from the WP. Lets see if I can find a picture... Ah, you can almost see the bumper or rubbing pin in the picture below. If it's LOOSE, seal it in with Permetex Ultra grey, under the pin. No more oil leak. If it's GONE (!) find it or another and seal that one in.
Gasket thickness is no matter. Clean surfaces, and gasket sealer are required.
Attached Images
 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gordon Raymond
Illinois SNO Alfa Chapter Director
Illinois SNO Ferrari Chapter Director
and sometimes, CONFUSED AND INCORRECT, but Larry helps me out.
Now:
Illinois Chapter Director AND Charter Member of THE CONFUSED AND INCORRECT
Gordon Raymond is offline  
post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
conedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 3,255
Gordon,

Thanks for the follow-up. I had recently checked the steel rubbing pin and it was tight.

The only scenario that makes sense is that the water pump gasket wasn't installed correctly last year. I originally thought the remote cooler/filter hose connections might be loose, and that's the first thing I worked on before starting on the scenario described in my recent post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Raymond View Post
The only place the WP gasket wants to leak oil is near that drive, either input hole or the drain back. NOW, it is possible that the little steel rubbing pin INSIDE the tack drive hole in the WP body has fallen out. (Don't ask). If it has, or is AWOL, the drive will leak oil from the WP. Lets see if I can find a picture... Ah, you can almost see the bumper or rubbing pin in the picture below. If it's LOOSE, seal it in with Permetex Ultra grey, under the pin. No more oil leak. If it's GONE (!) find it or another and seal that one in.
Gasket thickness is no matter. Clean surfaces, and gasket sealer are required.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

George Schweikle

1976 Spider (Dedicated Autocrosser, "SPICA, No Carbs")
1991 Spider Veloce (Retirement cruiser)
Scuderia Non Originale
conedriver is offline  
post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 04:16 PM
Registered User
 
genericwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,608
Guys, I remember several years ago there was a batch of water pumps where the steel pin was installed in the aluminum housing poorly. I had a stubborn leak until someone pointed this out to me. IIRC, I removed the pin and reinstalled with some sealant and the oil leak was cured.

May not have been your problem, but it could save someone else some trouble!

Erik
genericwood is offline  
post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
conedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 3,255
Erik, thanks for the information.

The latest part of the saga relates to a Wes Ingram threaded cam chain sprocket adjuster installed last year during some cylinder head work. This works in addition to the bolt-and-wedge scheme to lock the sprocket in place, but requires the original bolt to be loosened so the threaded adjuster can be used. After chasing the oil leak from the oil cooler hoses, adapter plate, tachometer drive gasket & seal, and finally the water pump gasket, I finally found that the cam sprocket tensioner bolt was missing!. This allowed oil to seep from this hole, down to the bottom of the water pump, and continuing a trail to where I mistakenly thought the leak was occurring. I obviously did not tighten the stock sprocket bolt when I last used the threaded adjuster for the cam chain, so it eventually vibrated out, and I was so convinced the leak was around the bottom of the engine, I neglected to look otherwise . In my defense, that bolt is sort of hidden on the lower front of the cylinder head, and I just kept looking elsewhere. I was in the grip of an "Ide'e Fixe" ("an idea or desire that dominates the mind; an obsession".)

Quote:
Originally Posted by genericwood View Post
Guys, I remember several years ago there was a batch of water pumps where the steel pin was installed in the aluminum housing poorly. I had a stubborn leak until someone pointed this out to me. IIRC, I removed the pin and reinstalled with some sealant and the oil leak was cured.

May not have been your problem, but it could save someone else some trouble!

Erik


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

George Schweikle

1976 Spider (Dedicated Autocrosser, "SPICA, No Carbs")
1991 Spider Veloce (Retirement cruiser)
Scuderia Non Originale
conedriver is offline  
post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 06:42 PM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Gordon Raymond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northfield, Illinois
Posts: 9,543
HA! I love it! Something "simple"!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gordon Raymond
Illinois SNO Alfa Chapter Director
Illinois SNO Ferrari Chapter Director
and sometimes, CONFUSED AND INCORRECT, but Larry helps me out.
Now:
Illinois Chapter Director AND Charter Member of THE CONFUSED AND INCORRECT
Gordon Raymond is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
Replace with
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome