V6 Strong modification

[Gabor K.]

Does not seem to be any place left over for top support of the liners in a big bore V6 24, as seen.

On highly stressed Alfa engines I have heard reports that the liner could start to rotate and thereby ruining the head gasket. In that case a monoblock liner could be the remedy. However I have not heard of a monoblock liner made for the V6. So it seems that the extra top sealing rings are doing their job.

[ToonRboy]

Quote:

I have planned to modify deeply a 3.0 V6 24 Valve engine, to obtain a reliable 450-475 HP engine. The engine will be twin turbo, and the cylinder capacity maximized to be around 3.8 litres.

[giuliettaevo]

Audi did it before... 2.7l v6 TT, 380 HP. older model RS4. It can be done.

[ToonRboy]

Quote:

Today 12:06 PM giuliettaevo said: Audi did it before... 2.7l v6 TT, 380 HP. older model RS4. It can be done.

[FMG_V6_btb]

ToonRboy, it is not necessary you say you are not engineer, is something I can notice.

I'm not a young student of engineering if is this what you believe, I pass 40, my "relation" with engines began when I was 14, with 23 I become Automotive Engineer, and started working for a well known car manufacturer as test engineer in engine test benches, 5 years after I was in charge of the calibration development (EMS) of a new engine, 2 years after I was team leader for gasoline engine calibration development, 3 years after I moved to the engine design department, and 4 years after I moved to a different independent company as project leader of the engine design and simulation team, since then I was involved in numerous engine design projects, some of them with more than 600HP, other with a speed record… I’m sure they are known by you and from many people around the world… (sorry, I can’t be more explicit ).

Ah…I’m also teacher of Automotive Engineering in the University (engines).

So, I think it is not necessary to hijack more this thread, if it is interesting for you and you can contribute with something, OK you are welcome, if not, please forget this thread.

P.D. About the transmission, I have said 2 times I think, that the engine will be installed in a mid-engined sport car, so NO Alfa chassis, and NO Alfa tranny.

Paco.

[Gabor K.]

I just wonder, with all your qualifications, why not just buy an engine, rod or piston kit and make the necessary measurements. Then you are confident that all data are for sure, instead of making a hypothetical excersize on a potentially unrelyable internet site?

[ToonRboy]

Quote:

ToonRboy, it is not necessary you say you are not engineer, is something I can notice

[slyalfa]

any how as to the mods. I would think starting on the bottom side. the thick oil pan gaskit which is about 1/4 inch seem like a good spot to put in a 1/4 inch plate. now I think the best thing to do, but might not be partacal is to weld the caps and plate together all as one part. also add some other cross selections. I have seen where some of the newer blocks do this and the bottom/mid oil pan and caps are all in one.
this would add strength all around. so it is more then just a plate but a structure but would just bolt in.
now if the org caps were welded to this frame would they need to be line bored again?

[Zunige]

I don't know about others, but I find this thread very interesting and enjoyable, and thank Paco for presenting his ideas. There are some engineers in the automotive field who also happen to be Alfa enthusiasts, and sometimes the post here, on the Alfa BB. It truly enhances the Alfa experience for me.

Best regards,

[FMG_V6_btb]

I don’t want to expend my money buying engine kits or components or complete engine developed by others, just because that’s my job and I like and enjoy doing it, also I have found that commercial kits are not as engineered as the parts they try to substitute. On the other hand I’m confident with people in this BB that wants to contribute with information, doesn’t matter if they are not engineers, experience and illusion is also very valuable, I think that collaboration could be reliable, slow but reliable.

I have found here at the BB many authentic Alfa enthusiasts, people who love everything related to Alfa Romeo cars, and the most important for me, serious people who like to share experiences, information, and many other things, people who like to make engine conversions, modifications, people with experience in motorsport…

On the other hand, here in Europe the legislation is very tight, and modifications, conversions, etc. are very very difficult to legalize, that’s why people doesn’t usually think about that. Here Alfa Romeo cars are only recognized for few people, majority thinks Alfa = junk and they prefers to buy German cars. Alfa forums in Spain are plenty of very young people who speaks of everything but Alfa, and even less about technology, so that is the reason why I like write and share my interest and knowledge with other people in the BB.

Paco.

[Gabor K.]

However an engineer like yourself would work differently from what you are trying to do here.

Buy an engine and make your own measurements on it, and calculate what you need to modify since you supposedly are able to do that! So why ask persons who have not done this: twin turbo 3.8 V6 24V? Why not do it yourself and then let us know how you did it, for free!

[FMG_V6_btb]

I don't need to buy an engine because I have one, but it is still assembled and installed on the car. At the moment I haven't enough free space or time to do it by my self ( I have to attend other important things... job, my pregnant wife, business...), but I don’t want forget the project, that’s why I started this thread.

I cannot soil my hands (at the moment, as I said) but I can access to the engine design and simulation tools needed for the project.

And yes, I usually work in a different way, but I enjoy sharing the process with people, it’s a way of teaching.

Paco.

[Gabor K.]

OK. There are very few who have twin turboed the 24V. One of them is Dawie de Villiers of Glenwood motors of S.A. I am sure he could give some good advice for your project from own experience. However most probably he would ask to send the engine and he do the job for you.. well ask him!

::Glenridge Motors:: - Speed & Sound Article

Try mail adress:
info@crazychrome.co.za

[FMG_V6_btb]

I tryed some weeks ago, but the mail was answered by John Van Rensburg (Junglejustice in the BB), it was not a technical communication, just commercial, and for the requested money (among other reasons) I decided to carry out the project by myself.

Paco.

[FMG_V6_btb]

I’m back again. Here you can see a drawing of that could be the bedplate.

The idea is to manufacture it as one unique part from high strength billet aluminium, or fabricate it from steel (in one part, or welding sections).

There is an important amount of machining work: Bearings cap sides, and the respective housings in the bedplate (with very tight tolerances), bridges, fixing holes, crankcase, etc.

In this design the bedplate is fixed to the crankcase by the oil pan bolts and positioned by a stepped rib in the bedplate which fit inside the crankcase internal perimeter (to do that the internal perimeter of the crankcase has to be machined at a depth of 6 mm approximately).

Take into account that this is a concept design not a detailed one, and many more modifications will be added according with the available information or specific engine application needs.

Opinions, suggestions, etc. are welcome (only the constructive ones)

Paco.