mixing parts 164 and Verde 3.0L engines

[MrT]

Howdy, folks,

How much mixing is "upgrades" and how much is simply false economy?

A Milano Verde that lost its compression along with maybe a valve guide in #1 is the topic of discussion. We have obtained some 164 3.0L heads in case the Verde's head(s) are _really_ broken. We noticed comments on a thread in the Milano/75 section about "upgrades" to the system if one uses a 164S block (oil squirters for the back of the pistons), and possibly 164 rods in place of the Verde rods. We have been offered a nearly complete set of 164 pistons and are considering whether we might want to replace all of the rods in the nominally 177k mile Verde engine with the 164 rods. Is this silly? (I'm not a practiced rebuilder, but have done a few Volvo B18 engines and am teaching my sons about things mechanical and the mystical vroom.)

We'll be trying to contact the former former former owner and see whether the engine was ever rebuilt, or maybe the chassis 177k miles is truly the engine's history, too. As well as looking everything over carefully so we don't do something avoidably stupid.

Michael

[alfa_corse]

I'm pretty sure these engines are virtually identical; except for the oil squirters (only early B/L engines did not have them). So you can interchange parts; but be sure that you use complete sets of whatever you replace (pistons, rods, liners) or make sure that they size/weight close to the parts you are substituting (have them balanced at an engine shop or if you are on a tight budget balance them yourself as described in the shop manual). There might be some differences in the 164 block that are not present on the Verde and vice-versa; not familiar with those design changes so I cant tell you for sure.

[junglejustice]

Balancing while you have it all in your hands is a GREAT idea! (Give them the flywheel and the crank pulley as well!!!!!) Tell them to use 33.3333% EXACTLY on the bob weights (lazy shops are so used to doing GM crap that they'll just use 30% and call it good...) Tell them to weigh each COMPLETE assembly first (rod with new bearing, new bush, wrist pin, all 3 rings, even the retainers - cotter - rings) and get all 6 sets even. Then they go 50% opposite on the flywheel and the pulley.

I would use the 164 rods for sure and the 164 pistons (if they look good!) Clean up the pistons - this sounds scary - on a wire-wheel - have it done professionally if need be...

Also, whatever you do - use new rings (all 3) - maybe do Gapless top from Total Seal and then their Standard competition middle and bottom, new bearings (crank mains and big-end rods) and new bushes (rod small-ends...)

Ball-hone the sleeves (after inspecting and finding NO deep grooves or excessive wear...) Use the best set. REMEMBER to replace the rubber o-rings at the bottom of the sleeves - clean up the seats REAL good! Carefully wire-wheel the bottom of the liners (o-ring seat edge...)

Skim heads ONLY enough to clean them up! You never know when you might need the extra "meat" to do a real shave (such as after warping from over-heating etc...)

Do new valve guides and valve-stem seals - pretty cheap - and maybe do a nice 3-angle/5-angle valve job while you are at it. (Same machinist can even do some minor port cleaning for you too) while they are at it...

[slyalfa]

the bob weights I get but what is the

50% opposite on the flywheel and the pulley? 50% opposite to what?
50% of all 6 compleat assemblys?

I will have to do this at some point when I do my 24V so I want to understand it.

[alfa_corse]

Factory balance seems to be pretty good; when I had my engine balanced there was some additional balancing done to the crank/pressure plate/pulley, but not much. Good idea to have everything done and know it's perfectly in balance! Also; I suggest putting in new rod bolts while you are rebuilding for peace of mind...

[dalek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfa_corse I'm pretty sure these engines are virtually identical; except for the oil squirters (only early B/L engines did not have them). So you can interchange parts; but be sure that you use complete sets of whatever you replace (pistons, rods, liners) or make sure that they size/weight close to the parts you are substituting (have them balanced at an engine shop or if you are on a tight budget balance them yourself as described in the shop manual). There might be some differences in the 164 block that are not present on the Verde and vice-versa; not familiar with those design changes so I cant tell you for sure.

[MrT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalek I am confused: which engines had the oil squirters?

[junglejustice]

WOW! How cool is that...? I thought that only the S had oil-squirters in the base of the block... Crap! My L isn't here to go check the numbers...

Dammit! manana....

50% of the total weight of the 6 assemblies is applied to the opposite point on the flywheel...