Performance 2L reBuild Giulia-Help Appreciated! - Page 6 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #76 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2011, 10:49 AM
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My suggestion:
Before you get into cutting a new gasket, or gluing the ones you have, tighten on the timing cover with the intermediate gear in place, and measure the end play. There is a measurement range for this in the build manual. This will tell you if cutting the ignition side gasket out of thinner material is likely to give you a problem or not. That's the one to replace if you're going to cut your own - as you say, you need to keep the exhaust side gasket with the silicone for the water log.
Permatex Aviation 2H is the stuff the guys are referring to if you can locate it.
Let me know if you need the end play measurement range and I can pull it out of the manual. It's not too likely that you'll have a wrong end play with the gaskets in place.
Re the oil pump drive gear, I don't know what manual you're working from, but have a very good look at the description of how this drive gear needs to be retarded (or advanced? can't remember right now) while installing your timing cover, with oil pump already in place but only tentatively tighened. Doing this right will orient the distributor to the "right" place rather than in some random direction.

A separate point, related your mcmaster carr order: at least I've had issues with the timing cover, water pump, and the sump loosening after some time running. (No, it's not just a question of not tightening enough, I think it's from gaskets compressing over a number of heat cycles.) I would suggest you look into self-locking nuts, or double-nutting things, and checking the tightness after 500 miles or whatever.
Neil
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2011, 11:33 AM
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Don't worry about it. Buy a new pair of gaskets, starting with a fresh MATCHING pair! The idler thrust washer isn't a "thrust" washer in that sense. The idler sprocket self-centers on the running engine. That washer keeps things "organized" on start up. You seldom see one with much wear unless a chain is bad, or run loose for a long time.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:23 PM
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I noticed your rolled pins are sitting a lot higher than current information. From what I've read, the pins should be just a little higher than the thickness of the o-ring.

Having gone through this recently, the information should be updated that the roll pins can and should sit higher than say 0.250" (6.35mm)? Might do a real service to get the word out before someone else has to go through what I did...having to pull the head twice, turn some brass pins on a lathe, re-install everything in a hot garage? Its cooled down already, have to break out the space heater soon.
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Old 10-09-2011, 01:24 PM
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Eedeneco, Thanks for the input. I was giving some thought to the intermediate gear and Gordon just confirmed that it does self center once the engine is running, I really wasn't sure about it for sure but it does seem like it would, I am curious to know what Alfa calls for correct end play of that assembly though....by the way which manual do you have? I have been using a combination of a few "autobooks" and "haynes" but I'd like something better. What is the best engine building manual?

On the nuts for the front timing cover, yes maybe locking ones would make sense.
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Last edited by vespam5; 10-09-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke58 View Post
I noticed your rolled pins are sitting a lot higher than current information. From what I've read, the pins should be just a little higher than the thickness of the o-ring.

Having gone through this recently, the information should be updated that the roll pins can and should sit higher than say 0.250" (6.35mm)? Might do a real service to get the word out before someone else has to go through what I did...having to pull the head twice, turn some brass pins on a lathe, re-install everything in a hot garage? Its cooled down already, have to break out the space heater soon.
Duke, yes I think they should run just slightly above or below o-ring since from what I understand they are only there to hold o-ring in place, I know there has been a lot of talk on these lately in this forum . I placed an order for the Norman Racing Brass pins but I may or may not use them since I did want to run reduced ID pins to achieve lower oil pressure in the head (an old racer's trick common here) and the Norman pins are I believe standard ID.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2011, 02:04 PM
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Vespam5,
- build manual: I use a copy of the Alfa North America factory manual for the late 2.0L, dated October 1990. I got it from AROC USA tech library about 15 years ago, after hearing various recommendations for it as the "latest'n'greatest".
- the idler end play: I went through the manual again just now. Unless I'm just not finding it at the moment, it seems my memory is wrong, there isn't any explicit end play specified. Instead there is a measurement between the faces of the two idler bushings (the one in the cover and the one in the block) of 47.720-47.820mm. You can compare that with the width of your idler. Note that this measurement is done with the gaskets in place. What I have seen is that without gaskets, the end play goes "negative", i.e. that the idler holds the timing cover away from the block by a small amount - so unless my (admittedly few) examples aren't normal, there is not much end play there, on the order of 0.2-0.3 mm.
Neil
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2011, 02:51 PM
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I was hoping not to make things complicated.... I only brought up the upper gear thrust clearence as to not set it up too tight if custom gaskets were made. I think Gordon is spot on in saying not to get carried away. Making your own gaskets just makes assembling engine go faster by not waiting for new gaskets to arrive. Sorry for confusion.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2011, 02:56 PM
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Rather than run a "Spica blockoff plate" I am tapping and putting threaded plugs into the timing chain cover. Removed the studs and saving a few ounces Considered machining some of the case off but probably will leave alone in case Spica every works its way back......doubt it will though.

Waiting on a replacement set of front gaskets....

Did you know water pumps are currently out of stock everywhere?





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Last edited by vespam5; 10-10-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:45 PM
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More importantly - what did you use to wash those parts ? the block and timing cover are pristine !

The last time I snuck a block through the dishwasher it still didn't come up that well
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2011, 03:50 PM
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Parts were bead blasted and washed! Also I took extra care to blow out shavings from tapping.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2011, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Did you know water pumps are currently out of stock everywhere?
Gordon Raymond rebuilds them.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2011, 07:15 PM
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Thanks Ed!
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by vespam5 View Post
Did you know water pumps are currently out of stock everywhere?
In case you want a new water pump you can always check at Evil Bay
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2011, 09:12 AM
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In case you want a new water pump you can always check at Evil Bay
The thing with ebay is that they aren't always in stock either, you may have to wait weeks for them to get them in stock.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2011, 09:27 AM
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Yep, they can be rebuilt so long as the impeller shaft and housing are in good shape. The bearing can be purchased locally (usually) and, as I recall, is a common size. Fitting the whole thing together is pure iron mongery, however, and is very easy for a newbie to get wrong. . . . Gordon, pumps his bellows and pounds his anvil in expectation . . .
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