"Budget" 11mm cam comparison? IAP vs. Centerline vs. Vick Auto?

gattia86 · #1 (**permalink**) 05-18-2009, 11:00 PM

I know this is a much-covered topic, but...

I'm looking to get a set of "budget" street-performance cams to add a bit of seat-of-the-pants zing to my US-spec '74 GTV 2000 (with famously low-lift cams).

For under $400, I see offerings from IAP, Centerline and Vick Auto that seem very similar, all with 11mm lift, yet with subtle differences in duration and overlap. I've searched the BB and read numerous cam posts, but haven't found any comments on the Centerline or Vick Auto cams.

Does anyone have experience with these particular cams? Is there anything that distinguishes one above the others? Any good threads I should read that already covers this?

I'm intrigued by Centerline's matching of a "Euro" 10mm cam on the exhaust with an 11mm cam on the intake, promising more top-end zing with no loss of low-end grunt. Any ideas if this is a good combo?

I realize there are probably better options for cams out there (RJR keeps coming up), but most of these seem to be out of my budget.

Thanks for any input,

George

'74 GTV 2000

JoeCab · #2 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 08:20 AM

We have found our 11.1mm cams to work quite well in most applications. They retain a lot more mid-range than most cams with this amount of lift, even at 5,500 feet elevation!

The one thing I should point out about our cams is that they are new (not regrinds) and they are nitrided. Not a lot of aftermarket cams are nitrided, and we pay extra for our manufacturer to do so. But with today's oils having less anti-wear agents, we feel this is necessary.

**George Willet** · #3 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 04:25 PM

George, The combination that Centerline Alfa sells works very well for your application, and has been tested by many of us.

You didn't say if you had carburators or Spica FI, but their combo works well with both; and if you have Spica then that is important. Many cams don't work well with Spica unless you do other engine changes.

gattia86 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 07:44 PM

My '74 GTV is fuel injected; it still has the SPICA throttle bodies, but I've converted it to electronic injection with a MegaSquirt computer. So... fuel delivery is easy to change, and larger injectors can be swapped in easily if needed.

It may also have high-compression pistons installed in an earlier rebuild, but I haven't been able to confirm this yet.

And, the car has a 4.10 rear end fitted, so I'm hoping the engine will still pull strongly from around 3000 or so. Right now, it pulls well from 2000 rpm, and freeway cruising at around 70 mph puts the engine at 4000-ish rpm, which seems right in the middle of a nice torque peak. As is, the car is a great freeway cruiser.

The problem is, on a winding and "technical" road, the engine just doesn't have much to give above 5000 rpm, and the power falls off just when the chassis loads up and starts to get fun. This kind of discourages spirited driving.

So, I'm not really concerned with every last dyno-proven hp possible... just better character out of the engine.

Given those parameters, and my desire to have the engine pull from 3000-ish rpm, do you think I'd be better off with 11mm cams on the intake and exhaust, or something like Centerline's 10/11mm combo?

thanks,
George

JoeCab · #5 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gattia86

Given those parameters, and my desire to have the engine pull from 3000-ish rpm, do you think I'd be better off with 11mm cams on the intake and exhaust, or something like Centerline's 10/11mm combo?

**jarrington** · #6 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gattia86

It may also have high-compression pistons installed in an earlier rebuild, but I haven't been able to confirm this yet.

slyalfa · #7 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 11:45 AM

Do you have a copy of Jim Kartalamakis book ?
In there he says by putting stepping in head to header with the header being larger it helps a lot with the low end/idle allowing you to have a lot of overlap for the hi-end.
if you do not have the book I would say pick up a copy. it has a lot of good info in it.

**BattleBug** · #8 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 12:13 PM

George,
Thanks for starting an interesting thread. I'm considering new cams when I convert from L-Jet to MS. Right now I'm running SPICA-style cams with no VVT. Seems to run good >3000rpm with both set to 102. Idle suffers a bit right now and I'm sure I've lost some efficiency around town but I love the fact that I don't need any special tools ala VVT.

Paul

**gigem75** · #9 (**permalink**) 05-22-2009, 08:24 PM

my 02, I used the IAP 11mm spica cams, 10:1 motronics, ported head and manifolds to JimK's specs, msd6al, put a 410 rear end in, and set the mixture and pump up using Wes's book. The motor pulls great in the low end, runs on up to 6500 with gusto and is easy to drive in 4th pulling nicely from just under 2000 even on a slight up hill slope. the idle is a little lumpy with all the overlap but I can live with that. I'd really like Wes to do the pump but I'm finding it hard to spend a grand on something that I'm not sure will give me that much more bang for the buck. For that kind of money I'd naturally expect a super major improvement and I'm just afraid I wouldn't get it and then regret spending that kind of money. If anyone has and been satisfied it sure would help me take the plunge. sorry for the semi highjack but I'm happy with the IAP cams, especially since they were 20% off when I bought them. Hey, I'm just a workin stiff or was anyway.

**Roadtrip** · #10 (**permalink**) 05-22-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigem75

my 02, I used the IAP 11mm spica cams, 10:1 motronics, ported head and manifolds to JimK's specs, msd6al, put a 410 rear end in, and set the mixture and pump up using Wes's book. The motor pulls great in the low end, runs on up to 6500 with gusto and is easy to drive in 4th pulling nicely from just under 2000 even on a slight up hill slope. the idle is a little lumpy with all the overlap but I can live with that. I'd really like Wes to do the pump but I'm finding it hard to spend a grand on something that I'm not sure will give me that much more bang for the buck. For that kind of money I'd naturally expect a super major improvement and I'm just afraid I wouldn't get it and then regret spending that kind of money. If anyone has and been satisfied it sure would help me take the plunge. sorry for the semi highjack but I'm happy with the IAP cams, especially since they were 20% off when I bought them. Hey, I'm just a workin stiff or was anyway.

**Alfar7** · #11 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

As with any cams, where you set the lobe centers has a huge effect on where the power comes in. With our 11.1mm cams we usually recommend 102 degrees for all around performance with good midrange. 110 degrees gives a few more HP all at the top end.

**101/105guy** · #12 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 11:08 AM

"It`s not that you don`t get "something" from poor cam design, it`s what you don`t get, Superior Torque, HP and Driveability"
__________________
Gosh, that was a diplomatic way to say that CL's cams are junk ;^)
Randy

**Alfar7** · #13 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 06:58 AM

[QUOTEGosh, that was a diplomatic way to say that CL's cams are junk ;^)
Randy
][/quote]

I said what I intended.
I need no one to speak for me, particularly, a know nothing like you Randy

I targeted no sellers cams. These are generally sold to buyers going from stock cams to their first cams.
My cams are sold to more experienced owners and racers wanting better cams. My cams do cost about 25% more but you get what you pay for, along with technical support!
Read the BB!

**101/105guy** · #14 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 11:43 PM

I never doubt that you say what you intend to ;^)
Of course, just because the thread is about IAP, CL, and VA's products and you quote Joe in your post, one can't possibly infer any connection to their products being a "poor design".
In your world, everyones products are inferior.

Randy
ps.....
Nice sales pitch !!

gattia86 · #15 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 06:34 AM

Thanks for everyone's input on this topic.

Richard, I've ready many of your posts on cams, and would deffinately like to get some ideas of what's possible in the future for my engine, seeing as it has the configurable EFI. Does this create any unique camshaft requirements or possibilities that SPICA-injected cars can't take advantage of?

Just for the record, I've confirmed that my engine has the 10.4:1 high-compression pistons (and, interestingly, an un-cut head thickness... it's been rebuilt in the past), so it should work pretty well with 11mm cams, I hope.

My goal was a budget-limited upgrade, so I ordered the 11mm cams that were on sale! I managed to get the cams AND upgraded valve springs for well under $400, which leaves me money for future big valves, porting... and maybe some custom cams from Richard!

I'll post more comments and questions when I get the cams and actually try to install them.

Any tips or good threads to read about cam installation?
Any tips about installing valve springs with the head on the car? (I've got another thread going about that, too).

Thanks,
George

'74 GTV