windage trays design & how does it work??

[fgc]

Hi All,

I would like to ask if anyone has a design of the windage tray suitable for the 105 nords.

My mind is running wild with all these add on possibilities the more I search the BB. This is a terrible place for the ill disciplined! All I know is I can have one cut easy at my local shop so that is why I am considering it and yet I have no idea what the actual benefits are.

So will appreciate any direction on how to design one or even better if you do not mind sharing a design that you had already cut previously. Thanks

Also what I would like to know is how does it really work. I thought that its a good thing to have the crankshaft throw oil on the cylinder liner walls so that it provides lubication to the rings and also helps to seal it better. But if the windage tray is cut too near the reciprocating crank and conrods, will this result in too little oil throw on the wall? or am I thinking too much???

Thanks!
fgc
1750 spider

[Zunige]

Autocomponenti has windage trays, and their workmanship is first rate. You'll find information on this web page, and if you click on the link for installation instructions, you'll find more very valuable information. (BTW, that is Jim Steck's web site. He's the engine builder of "Bonnie".)

Best regards,

[genericwood]

The cylinder walls don't really need very much oil. A windage tray went on ebay for $123 the other day. Sounds like a good buy until you hear that they only cost $115 brand new!

Erik

[conedriver]

Well, Alfa Romeo thought enough of the windage tray concept that it was factory installed on Giulietta Veloce engines (and, I think, Giulia Veloce also)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgc ......Also what I would like to know is how does it really work.... Thanks! fgc 1750 spider

[Alleggerita]

Paul Spruell sells both a windage and slosh tray - explanation on how they work in the link below. They have the added benefit of stiffening the crankcase: Oil Control and Oil Pumps for Alfas

[Gordon Raymond]

Here are three designs. The first is an Ausca variation for a 1600 Veloce engine, as I built it. The second is Richard Jemisons variation in aluminum. Very nice. The third is an Autodelta variation for the bat wing GTA pan recently sold by Keith Goring. All these variations work quite well and quickly get oil back down into the sump by the pick up, while somewhat eliminating oil sloshing about above the windage tray.

[msiert]

Here is a windage tray that Steve Schwitter made for me. He also gated the sump to keep the oil at the pick up point on hard turns too.

[fgc]

Thanks for all the replies and pics

First Important Question HOW DID YOU GUYS GET YOUR OIL PAN SOOOO CLEAN?? Mine after scrubbing with everything I have is still, according to Simon & Garfunkel, "a hazy shade of brown"!

Ok, I see what you guys are doing and the rationale behind it. It is a way to "keep a lid" on the sloshing oil - that include the gates.

But what about those windage trays that I see that has cut out for the rotating crankshaft? I understand that the cut out is there to "scrape" oil off the rotating big end rod and some claim to also reduce air drag (which I don't think so). Is this still called a windage tray or an oil scraper tray thingy?

I thought that the scraper thing keeps the "lid on the oil" but now I realised that its too high up. So this is actually a 2 piece item?

1) the lower one which is shown in the pictures by Gordon and Msiert
2) an upper one cut to shape round the crank and possibly bolted to the Main caps?

Concerning 2) how close/far must the cut out from the crank before its too close or too large and becomes ineffective?

Thanks for all the replies

fgc

I'm going to go laser cut me some of these stuff soon! Nothing like knowing a friend with a large CNC laser cutting shop

[genericwood]

We are talking about 2 different things here. Efforts to trap the oil around the pick up on a 105/115 style sump is commonly referred to as a "slosh tray". Spruell sells a simple but effective one for "batwing" sumps that doesn't require trap doors etc. He also sells a windage tray (I believe he gets them from Steck?). The windage tray sandwiches between the sump and block and ties into the main caps. It is designed to "peel" the ropes of oil off the big ends. Whether it helps aerodynamically, I don't know.

By the way, the ultimate in slosh trays is what the factory used on Giulietta Veloces. The entire bottom of the sump is a separate reservoir with trap doors to ensure one way oil flow. The oil pump has a tube which connects directly to this reservoir.

Erik

[Alleggerita]

slosh tray is to keep the oil around the pick up. Windage tray (for the most part) is to "scrape" the aerated oil of the crank and to return it to the sump to keep it from frothing as air doesn't do lubrication any good - so close to the crank is good for the windage tray.

[Andrew]

Even the lowly Giulietta Berlina (lowest HP version of all) with stamped steel pan had a windage/anti-slosh tray of sorts. See pic.

Andrew

[Gordon Raymond]

The above three posts have covered this pretty well. Due to the cost and scarcity of the straight Veloce sump with the cooling passages in a bottom section with the pump pick up, many are now using the 1600 cast aluminum one piece sump. These work well as long as a provision is made for a trap door box around the pump pick up, with the original windage or slosh tray.

[fgc]

Thank you all for your replies.

I am definately going to add a slosh tray.

I also want to add a windage tray as well.

Anyone has any idea for dimensions and design of the windage tray? I see the hyperlinks to buy the commercially available ones. I am just wondering if anyone had tried to build one and if so would you mind sharing your design with us.

Thank you
fgc

[Gordon Raymond]

Contact Alfar7, Richard Jemison on the BB with a PM. He can likely build, or may have what you are looking for in his shop.

[velocedoc]

Doesn't this modification add a few hp to the engine?