MegaSquirt Expertise & Referral

[Humanatek]

Hello:
I'm upgrading my Nord motored Alfa Spider Quad with many updates for performance. Among those updates will be ditching the Jetronic system for a Megasquirt system.... any of you have a referral for a fellow Alfisti that's already done this and may have pre-programmed maps to share with me? Just trying to reduce my learning curve here. Thanks friends,

[geh458]

Hi,

Try using the search function on the gray menu bar. The are quit a few threads about the megasquirt system and the settings. Here a link to the threads that have "megasquirt" in their titles: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sear...archid=1242201

[bcal]

Been there done that.
Have a look at my homepage.
If you are running MSII with quad throttle bodies I can send you my msq which should put you in the ball park.
EDIS is a worthwhile addition too.

[Humanatek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcal Been there done that. Have a look at my homepage. If you are running MSII with quad throttle bodies I can send you my msq which should put you in the ball park. EDIS is a worthwhile addition too.

[180OUT]

Martin:

There's a continuing interest in Megasquirt on the bb so, by all means, look at all the older posts. In particular, pay attention to bcal's various posts along the way. Despite the brevity of his posts Brett knows a lot and has contributed much. In particular, you should look for his posts on using the Suzuki motorcycle throttle-bodies, adapted to work with a Nord motor.

I'm strictly a newbie when it comes to Megasquirt and EFI in general. I'm much more comfortable working on Webers so MS/EFI is a complete generation (a quantum leap, really) ahead of emulsion tubes and venturi.

Megasquirt is not a plug and play system. As Brett pointed out several months ago, working with Megasquirt isn't particularly hard if you have the skills to do the work. He's a hot-rodder which translates into being a good wrench turner who knows his way around shops.

For me, the whole MS/EFI issue has a steep learning curve and I'm still turning pages. One thing that attracts me to MS and or Megajolt (a stand alone mappable ignition that works with Webers) is that the whole thing can be assembled with---mostly---parts sourced from PickNpull. The devil is in the details. . .

[Humanatek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 180OUT Martin: There's a continuing interest in Megasquirt on the bb so, by all means, look at all the older posts. In particular, pay attention to bcal's various posts along the way. Despite the brevity of his posts Brett knows a lot and has contributed much. In particular, you should look for his posts on using the Suzuki motorcycle throttle-bodies, adapted to work with a Nord motor. I'm strictly a newbie when it comes to Megasquirt and EFI in general. I'm much more comfortable working on Webers so MS/EFI is a complete generation (a quantum leap, really) ahead of emulsion tubes and venturi. Megasquirt is not a plug and play system. As Brett pointed out several months ago, working with Megasquirt isn't particularly hard if you have the skills to do the work. He's a hot-rodder which translates into being a good wrench turner who knows his way around shops. For me, the whole MS/EFI issue has a steep learning curve and I'm still turning pages. One thing that attracts me to MS and or Megajolt (a stand alone mappable ignition that works with Webers) is that the whole thing can be assembled with---mostly---parts sourced from PickNpull. The devil is in the details. . .

[bcal]

Thanks for the kind words Jim.
Martin, you're in luck because at the moment I have my throttle body system pulled apart so that I can do a bit of port matching between my stock alfa manifold and ported head.

I've been meaning to put together a "how to" so I will take some pics and post them here under a new thread.

For the time being here's a quite vid of mine running.

YouTube - Alfarod

[Humanatek]

Hey there Brett, check these out on Ebay, these are three suzuki hayabusa throttlebodies... would either work? Which would you go with and why?

Here are the item numbers in Ebay US.

270252220399

310064167601

310064167601

Thanks for any help you could lend Brett!

Martin

[bcal]

IMO the 98/99 600-750cc TBs are best suited. They are made by Mikuni and are very good quality with no plastic bits.
They are easiest to separate and remount to suit the alfa's spacing. The injectors are mounted at a better angle (60 deg as opposed to 45) and are interchangeable with other denso injectors, mine are from a Toyota 7MGE.
The GSXR injectors are too small at only 190cc/min.

Also the outlet ID is 40mm, just like alfa. Inlet is a whopping 48mm and throttle plate is 46mm so there is plenty of flow through the things.

The hardest parts of the are job are making up a new fuel rail and mounting stubs for the alfa manifold. Both of these jobs can be farmed out if need be but labour is very expensive.
I had my stubs welded for $60 but did all the machine work myself.

[180OUT]

I looks like the SPICA injection manifold/TB might be another option for a Megasquirt conversion. Here in the States so many are laying around in people's back yards that they can be found very cheaply. The advantage is that the whole assemblage, of course, is designed for 105 Alfas so all the hardware, linkage, air box, etc. will fit without much modification (aside from fabricating the fuel rail).

Brett, I hadn't thought of the injector angle you mentioned. It looks like there's enough meat in the SPICA manifold to not only allow for redrilling for EFI injectors but for changing the angle of the injector as well. Wes Ingram over here does a great job of boring out the SPICA TB's for better flow.
BTW: I watched your video on Youtube. Your car is way cool.

I wonder if anyone on the BB as actually done a Megasquirt/SPICA conversion? Bench racing is one thing: practical applications are another.

Megasquirt is such a great idea. The hardware is dead cheap and the open source software displayed on your computer in the video) is free!

Martin: Can you post some photos of the M3 Beemer TB's? This discussion makes me wonder what other TB's will work.

[Humanatek]

Hey guys this is getting really interesting... Jim, great comments, I didn't notice the that Brett had drilled out the Spica for fuel injection.... That sounds brilliant! But I suppose it would absolutely be necessary when going with the MS programmable system.

you guys have really opened up my my mind to various flexibilities and creative solutions to possible throttlebody solutions to our Nord engine....

Brett I'll be bugging you my friend for details on your specific megasquirt application with the Yamaha tbodies....

I'm not sure that i"ll go with M3 tbodies, just kinda toying with the idea if it would work..? There's a gorgeous carbon fiber intake for an e30 M3 on ebay right now that I was just lusting over and picturing it in my Spider's engine bay! But not sure it would work, I frankly don't have the technical / mechanical knowledge that most of you have over me....

I've got more fundamental questions even before dreaming about a carbon fiber M3 intake... like is the hayabusa intake I saw on Ebay same as the one in Brett's beauty? stuff like that. What's the flow? How big is the diameter?

Ok, gotta go! Happy 4th to all of you.

Martin

[bcal]

Hyabusa is too big, big is not always better, the 600/750cc gsxr TBs are plenty big enough while still giving good low end throttle control. A 750cc gsxr spins to something like 14000rpms so there's plenty of air flow to support a 2L at just 6500rpm.

But you don't necessarily need individual TBs, you could use a single TB on a common plenum. It may not respond quite as well as the ITBs but it would be a whole lot easier to tune due to better manifold vacuums. Refer the synchroMap thread on the MS forum for tuning problems with ITBs. Also look on my video at how my VE table resembles a skateboard ramp. This is typical for an ITB setup and what makes them real hard to tune on speed density systems like megasquirt.

If someone were drilling EFI bungs into the spica manifold then that's the way I would have gone but over here in Oz we don't speaka da spica.

[gattia86]

Jim,

Just chiming in briefly to let you know I've converted my Spica throttle bodies to Bosch injectors and Megasquirt (MS II, just wiring it up for "fuel only" to keep it simple).

In brief, it was 10 times harder than I anticipated. The concept is pretty easy, but the details will drive you nuts. It's taken me the better part of a year, working on and off as time, money and motivation allow, and the damn thing is still not quite done.

Yes, boring out the Spica injector holes to fit Bosch-sized injectors is probably the best way. A specially-formed cutter is available, for a few hundred bucks. A machine shop would charge several hundred more for the set-up and machine work.

I opted for the "cheaper" method, and drilled out the Spica holes myself and welded in pre-made Bosch bungs. These bungs are available from places like Summit for around $75/set.

The hardest part is figuring out the fuel rail and fuel-rail hold-down method.

The Spica car is already set up with fuel return lines. A high-pressure Bosch pump out of any '80s vintage European car will fit right in to the stock fuel pump bracket. A Saab 900 fuel pressure regulator mounts remotely, so is easy to plumb in and fit.

Wiring has proven a bit of a pain. I'm still not sure I've gotten the "tach" signal wire correct. Any input on this, bcal?
After much research and fussing about, I've settled on sending the distributor VR output to a GM HEI 7-pin module to generate the square-wave signal for the MegaSquirt, then running the same 2 wires back to the input side of the original 4-pin HEI unit already in the car to do spark-control duties as usual.
I hope this is sound reasoning. I'll post some specific questions about this later.

Hopefully, the car will be running in the next week or so.

With hind-sight, it would've been chaper, easier and 10 times faster to convert the car to Webers, or even get a full Wes-Ingram-rebuilt pump and set of matched injectors.

More later...

George

'74 2000 GTV, Spica manifold converted to EFI

[180OUT]

Quote:

Just chiming in briefly to let you know I've converted my Spica throttle bodies to Bosch injectors and Megasquirt (MS II, just wiring it up for "fuel only" to keep it simple). In brief, it was 10 times harder than I anticipated. The concept is pretty easy, but the details will drive you nuts. It's taken me the better part of a year, working on and off as time, money and motivation allow, and the damn thing is still not quite done.