Self learning EFI - Design Thoughts

[bcal]

Ha ha a genetic algorithm, that's an abstract metaphor if ever I've heard one.
Thanks for that, I bothered looking it up on wiki, very interesting even though I struggle to understand it.

[180OUT]

Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by bcal Ha ha a genetic algorithm, that's an abstract metaphor if ever I've heard one. Thanks for that, I bothered looking it up on wiki, very interesting even though I struggle to understand it.

[danyl]

Now we are talking. I'm liking the AI idea! If tuning was as simple as setting perfect A/F ratios, NASCAR and other racing circuits wouldn't pay so dearly for experienced tuners. Maybe a good AI system could someday rival professional tuners in our ameteur automobiles.

Of note: My AUXBOX arrived. It apparently already interfaces with Megasquirt. I can tune the Megasquirt based upon the AUXBOX datalogged information, but I HAVE TO MAKE THE EVALUATIVE DECISIONS MYSELF.

Both systems however, can interface through MicroSoft Excel. I've started a spreadsheet that I can track the "runs" and the Megasquirt changes made after each run. There will then be a column that shows the new measurements after the changes. I'll later plot the mods and their effects in order to make some statistal predictions. This is exactly what an AI system could do on the fly without user input.

My guess: This is already where the technology is headed. I'm probably late in the game even to suggest the marriage of these technologies. The guys as Innovate allude to having already begun R&D on the subject.

[slyalfa]

I do not think you need a AI, or that one would even help. the problem is the lack of inputs. ION gives most of what is needed. to do a good job let s look at what you need
ION can get the peak pressure so you can do the timing dead on. and it can tell if a misfire happeded and strike a plasma burst that makes up time due to its bigger starting kernel. it can also tell if a det happened. now with the WBO² you can set the mix dead on. so yoou still need to ckeck temps so you do not melt a valve or a piston. the EGT can help there.

so if you have all that it is going to be there with just the facts.

set the mix to .85 for power and let the ION figure out the best timming.
sets mix to 1.0 or 1.1 and let the ION set the best Timming for MPG
there is no magic. the number needed are well knowen. and most systems do not have the inputs needed so they have to just look it up. and the tuner some times add more inputs just for the tune (like det phones) and lookes at the spark plugs etc.

some tuners use a very very $$ custom sparkplug that can read the peak pressure.
but at the end of the day the problem is that most installs just do not have the info they need to do the setings. and all the software in the word will not make up for the lack of a critical data point



now there are some small things after that that a human will do. like I had to detune the low end a lot on my motor so I could drive in trafic. when I had the better tune the power came on so fast off idle that it was hard to drive in bumber to bumber.

[turbolarespider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyalfa I do not think you need a AI, or that one would even help. the problem is the lack of inputs. ION gives most of what is needed. to do a good job let s look at what you need ION can get the peak pressure so you can do the timing dead on. and it can tell if a misfire happeded and strike a plasma burst that makes up time due to its bigger starting kernel. it can also tell if a det happened. now with the WBO² you can set the mix dead on. so yoou still need to ckeck temps so you do not melt a valve or a piston. the EGT can help there. so if you have all that it is going to be there with just the facts. set the mix to .85 for power and let the ION figure out the best timming. sets mix to 1.0 or 1.1 and let the ION set the best Timming for MPG there is no magic. the number needed are well knowen. and most systems do not have the inputs needed so they have to just look it up. and the tuner some times add more inputs just for the tune (like det phones) and lookes at the spark plugs etc. some tuners use a very very $$ custom sparkplug that can read the peak pressure. but at the end of the day the problem is that most installs just do not have the info they need to do the setings. and all the software in the word will not make up for the lack of a critical data point now there are some small things after that that a human will do. like I had to detune the low end a lot on my motor so I could drive in trafic. when I had the better tune the power came on so fast off idle that it was hard to drive in bumber to bumber.

[slyalfa]

yes. that is right. the pressure probes is the best but not the thing you can keep there for ever and the cost is $$$.

there is a ION/plasma box out there I do not have the link but I have seen it I think that is the box they use for F1 etc.. but the real problem is saab has all the IP on that so you will not see any mainstream product have it unless some sort of deal is struck with saab.

I saw a cool sparkplug gaskit that had a piezoelectric element in it but I could never find where to get any.
That seemed like a very good way of geting the data on the cheap. might even work on head bolts.

[danyl]

Quote:

now there are some small things after that that a human will do. like I had to detune the low end a lot on my motor so I could drive in trafic. when I had the better tune the power came on so fast off idle that it was hard to drive in bumber to bumber.

[turbolarespider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyalfa yes. that is right. the pressure probes is the best but not the thing you can keep there for ever and the cost is $$$. there is a ION/plasma box out there I do not have the link but I have seen it I think that is the box they use for F1 etc.. but the real problem is saab has all the IP on that so you will not see any mainstream product have it unless some sort of deal is struck with saab. I saw a cool sparkplug gaskit that had a piezoelectric element in it but I could never find where to get any. That seemed like a very good way of geting the data on the cheap. might even work on head bolts.

[slyalfa]

"GM/Saab does not have all of the rights"
hmm that is good to know..

"A system that COULD monitor the poor performance at low speeds,"
The problem was not poor performance it was too good of performance. I had to make it poor. I guess some sort of algorithm could be made to work. some sort of rule that detunes at low TPS settings.
what I did was retard the timming to a bad spot to limit power at the low RPM and TPS setings.

when I had a good timming path as the RPM went up the timming advancd and that made more power which made the RPM go up more adding more advance and so on. this is good as far as the motor wants but with a direct throttle the postive gain in power made for hard slow speed driving.

now a drive by wire throttle would make this easy to fix keep the tune good but back off the throttle as the timming/RPM advances to keep a more constant power level.

[AR67202]

my Megasquirt2 kit is at customs at the moment, hopefully the paperwork will be done before the end of the week. Will install it on my modified 2.0 Twinspark engine, and will post experiences if there's any interest...

[180OUT]

By all means, please do! The more said about using the Alfa/MS combination, the easier it is for us to understand what's needed to get a car running with one. Are you planning to use the Motronic FI hardware or will you use different throttlebodies?

[AR67202]

I'm using the single Dell'orto TB that came with the Bosch FI, but switched to somle bigger capacity fuel injectors. Apart from that and a GM intake air temp sensor, I'm using all the Parts that came with the car. The TB is plenty big at 70mm, doubt I'll get 280 Bhp out of the engine any time soon

I got rid of the flappy AFM, which also incorporates the Intake air temp sensor, so had to get a new one. The GM sensors don't need calibrating with the Megasquirt, so the easy choice...

As far as the series 2 TS engines go (1995cc as found in the 155), they got limited to 140-ish Bhp by use of a smaller than ideal AFM, and small injectors, both are calculated to around 140 Bhp output at 0.52 BSFC.

[flaatr]

Genetic Algorithm are amazing but require a bit of horse power (computer) to be of any use.. a good friend of mine designed a GA solver for some work he was doing and the results were fantastic!

-Raffi

[Chsmadden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaatr Genetic Algorithm are amazing but require a bit of horse power (computer) to be of any use.. a good friend of mine designed a GA solver for some work he was doing and the results were fantastic! -Raffi

[flaatr]

Yeah, but make it 20 dual processor machines running in parallel.
(and if you asked him he'd say that wasn't enough)

-Raffi