Spark Plugs for 1990 Spider Quad - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-24-2016, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
1990 Spider Quad
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Spark Plugs for 1990 Spider Quad

Looking for spark plug recommendation along with gap.

Thanks.

Brian.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 12:48 AM
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you can't really go wrong with NGK plugs, imo.

your USA 90' spider should have the Motronic cat engine like the S4 spider (engine codes: AR01544, or AR01588, or AR01590 - the engine code is the first 5 digits of your engine number, my euro S4 has AR01588), for which the NGK catalogue lists:
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

Last edited by spiderserie4; 11-25-2016 at 01:06 AM.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 04:10 AM
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I'll agree with Dom that you can't go wrong with NGK. However, NGK's listing is for an extended tip plug (the 'P' in BP6ES). Alfa never used an extended tip plug in the L4 Nord engines. But this doesn't mean they won't work in a stock engine.
The alternative to the stock Lodge HL-USA spark plug listed in the 1990 USA Spider user manual is a Champion N5C gapped at 0.024-0.028" (0.6-0.7mm).

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
1990 Spider Quad
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Thanks!

Unfortunately, my car didn't come with a manual. Do you have any idea where I can find one? I would like a physical copy and pdf if at all possible.

Thanks again on the recommendations. It is very much appreciated. I am trying to get my questions answered by searching the forums, but there is so much information and much of it very diverse that my simple mind has trouble collating it!

Thanks again for the quick response.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Brian.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 06:19 AM
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Hi Brian,

If you provide me your email address, I can set you up with a bunch of manuals in pdf.

Jim

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 09:06 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
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So I think there may be something wrong with that European NGK plug recommendation page. For the S4 cars, the US NGK site has always recommended heat range 7. This jibes with Alfa's recommendation that the S4 cars use the cooler Golden Lodge 2HL plug instead of the HL.

NGK also recommends resistor plugs for cars with EFI (which would be BPR). So it should be BPR7ES (or BPR7EIX if you want iridium). That's what I use and they work well.

NGK Part Finder

.
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1991 Spider
1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 10:11 AM
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When researching plugs for my Motronic Twin Spark, someone on this forum said this plug was a replacement:

UXF56 Beru Spark Plug

I found a US distributor:

UXF56 Beru Spark Plug - US Distributor of genuine BERU products - Kingsborne Wires Werks

and bought a set. They have been working very well. I would expect that the Motronic Spider would also perform well with them.

Stefano
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 10:34 AM
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"So I think there may be something wrong with that European NGK plug recommendation page. For the S4 cars, the US NGK site has always recommended heat range 7"


these catalogues are all very poor if you ask me, and have many errors in them!

tbh: I use in my S4 the bog standard NGK B7ES (no P projected, no R Resistor) gapped at 0.025", because that plug is what an older NGK catalogue expressly cross referenced to Lodge 2HL!!
I too was surprised to see the NGK catalogue recommend 6's and then on top of that the P projected tip, but hey it is their catalogue, and one presumed it is correct.

NGK usa can't be 100% correct either, because why the need to use R resistor plugs for the S4, when the factory Bosch leads with the metal plug cap, have the 5K.ohm resistance built in?

OK if you have changed the leads for bendy red rubber plugged ones, maybe

Here in Germany you'll find as many S4 drivers using the 7 range as you will using the 6 range....probably depending which catalogue they have read!

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 11:08 AM
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I will take the engine manufactures sparkplug recommendation over the sparkplug manufacturers recommendation 100 out of 100 times.
In this case, Alfa recommends the Lodge HL-USA or, as an alternative, the Champion N5C. Both plugs are non-extended tip and non-resistor. The NGK equivalent is B6ES.

Note; USA market cars were never factory fitted with the cooler Lodge 2HL plugs until 1991.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)

Last edited by papajam; 11-25-2016 at 01:01 PM. Reason: add info
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 11:31 AM
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I asked NGK about that a while ago because I had the same question regarding resistor plugs. The response I got was that many OEMs use both resistor plugs and resistor wires to cut down on electromagnetic interference, and that there were no issues with using both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papajam View Post
In this case, Alfa recommends the Lodge HL-USA or, as an alternative, the Champion N5C. Both plugs are non-extended tip and non-resistor. The NGK equivalent is B6ES.

Note; USA market cars were never fitted with the cooler Lodge 2HL plugs.
I'm going by the 1991 manual here, Papajam.


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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papajam View Post
I will take the engine manufactures sparkplug recommendation over the sparkplug manufacturers recommendation 100 out of 100 times.
In this case, Alfa recommends the Lodge HL-USA or, as an alternative, the Champion N5C. Both plugs are non-extended tip and non-resistor. The NGK equivalent is B6ES.

Note; USA market cars were never fitted with the cooler Lodge 2HL plugs.
well, I never knew that. Interesting....then I searched and hey ho, they are even marked HL-USA

You can still find HL Lodge, centerline has them I think (not cheap at nearly 13$ each, but that is way cheaper than the 2HL over here, when/if you find them)
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 11:37 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
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Here's the Alfa TSB on plugs. Apparently they were recommending the cooler 2HL for 1750 engines, or for "high performance demands" on all Nords. This is from '89 so it doesn't cover the S4 engine, but per the manual they went with 2HL for that as well.

(Don't ask me what the heck an "HL-USA" is...)

Folks have been using both NGK 6s and 7s fairly interchangeably. The only potential issue with using a cooler plug is fouling. If you go too hot on a plug, you can get preignition, which is really bad. Given that I've never ever fouled a plug on an Alfa with EFI my personal bias is to stick with the colder side.

.
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File Type: pdf 05.89.01.pdf (223.6 KB, 39 views)

Tom

1991 Spider
1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)

Last edited by Gubi; 11-25-2016 at 11:40 AM.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 12:19 PM
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I don't want to confuse the OP (Brian) too much, but this is an interesting article on Lodge and the chinese imitations now out there (in italian)
antiquarius

(I got stung on a set from fleabay, and I noticed after I took them out the first time, maybe 200 miles old by then, that I could smear the green 'Lodge' script away with my finger! -direct into the trash they went!)

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 12:57 PM
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Interesting TSB find, Tom! Thanks for posting. I've edited my previous post to reflect this info.

Looks like Alfa took only 20 years to figure out that some Americans consistently rev the engine to more than 3k RPM (or drive fast) thereby recommending the colder 2HL plug. This is borne out by Alfa 'changing their minds' with the TSB now saying that the recommended plug for the 1750 is the 2HL while all USA 1750 user manuals (and 2L 115 cars as well) say that the HL plug was fitted at the factory. I'm okay with that as I've changed my mind on occasion too and a colder plug is 'safer' than a hot plug. For those interested, I run Champion C57 plugs (brrrr) about equivalent to an NGK B10ES.

Seems Alfa changed to the 2HL plug starting in 1991 as Tom posted above. Please click below for the sparkplug pages from the 1990 Spider and a 1750 USA user manual.

BTW, I recall that the 'E' in HL-E stood for electronic as in when Alfa changed from points to electronic ignitions.
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File Type: pdf Spider, 1990, Sparkplugs.pdf (169.3 KB, 53 views)
File Type: pdf 1750, USA, Sparkplugs.pdf (556.8 KB, 32 views)

Jim

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 01:57 PM
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It's nice to know the Lodge are still available. I was under the impression they were no longer being made. Are the Centerline ones made in China?

I always preferred Lodge on my Spica car. My local Alfa mechanic always pulled them out and put in NGKs but the car always ran better on Lodges. I keep them all used in a box. The other day one cylinder began fouling on my NGK 7ES and I began using 6ES. They lasted longer but when they fouled as well, I put in an old Lodge and it's been fine for a couple of months.

When my TS engine came to me straight from Italy, it had Lodges in there. They looked OK, but I pulled them out for a fresh set of BERU. I should test the BERU ones in my fouling cylinder in the Spica car. The old Lodges I won't throw away. Old ones are still good. I will order a few from CL on my next order.

I would not think the EFI cars are as picky as the Spica cars, though.

Stefano
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