Programmable Motronic ML4.1 for 75/164

[Richard22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpa The ML4.1 schematic is in the File section of Alfa75 Yahoo newsgroup. It's derived from the Opel ML4.1 schematic).

[jroal]

I started a Yahoo forum to work on modifying Motronic. See the forum at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/BoschDME/

We have a few schematics there, many binaries, a dissassembly of Porsche 944S code, and much more. I think we can work together to mutual benefit.

[alpa]

The problem with you guys is that you are constantly moving .
There is that
http://frwilk.com/944dme/
There were some discussion around that.
Then there was a very good forum some years ago with many Motronic threads, it disappeared.
Here:
www.motronic944.com

Then we had that:
http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/*c...ocs/index.html

I'm constantly contacted by guys from everywhere asking me to help to change maps or find them. So may be we should stop moving and start working together ? I hope this time we'll succeed.

I also have a few collection of bins.

Ok, I've subscribed and read some messages. Looks like we lost some skilled guys on the way. I'll try to contact them. Every time a new place is open we have to explain again lots of basic principles, I'm tired to do that. We'd need a tutorial.

[alpa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard22 Thanks a million. That's great. Do you know of a M2.1 schematic anywhere?

[FR Wilk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpa No, I don't have. I believe this site will help you: http://frwilk.com/944dme/

[alpa]

Just to inform that I finished (the 3rd version) the firmware 3 moths ago. I have not done injection yet, ignition was more critical and I wanted to test all that. But it's possible.

Conclusions:

I had a lot of pain to make the kernel fast (I wrote 3 versions). The ML4.1 10Mhz CPU is not fast enough to be comfortable when doing a flexible system. I estimate the max RPM around 7000RPM. Despite the fact all modern 8052 can run x2 mode, this can not be used because the (external) ADC chip would not work at high frequency.

I also had to modify one wire (easy) to drive the ADC end-of-conversion signal to CPU, necessary to make fast and reliable ADC conversions.

So I took the decision to switch to ARM7 CPU modules that will be inserted in place of old CPU (old Motronic (911,944,75TS,164 v6) and IAW (biturbo, cosworth)) or used with Megasquirt/MSAVR-like peripherals. Philips ARM7 have 5volt tolerant I/O pins.

[Razzo rosso]

Hi Alexis

Any news on the ECU rewrite. I'd love to hear about it.
Happy New Year

Simon

[alpa]

Hi Simon,

Happy New Year

My Mini 998 has been running with a static ignition for several months now.

I decided to finish injection and probably go a low boost turbo before starting ARM7 migration. But I bought 3 LPC2138 modules.

The injection code is finished, I'm testing it on a bench (will need several days). It's a MAP/RPM injection with one injection pulse per revolution (to work with Mini siam ports). The plan is to run with this code in parallel with a carb during 1-2 weeks before installing the MPi staff on the engine.

[Razzo rosso]

Hi Alexis
That sounds like great stuff - lots of work in that effort. I bet that all the Motronic guys in their Spiders would love to buy a programmable ECU - hint hint
Count me in if you ever decide to sell them !
All my best
Simon

[Gabor K.]

Alpa: advancing a little bit further - to ME 2.1. A lot of other features included in this, like Alfa code system, motor driven throttle, even the brake and clutch pedals are connected, of course in addition to all the sensors. Do you have any opinion if its possible to bypass all these extras and use the ME-2.1 as just engine management? I have seen others use aftermarket injection systems but none a modified ME2.1. Any opinions?

[alpa]

I think all these "fly-by-wire" managements are here to restrict the range of input values that ECU can see. Cars have to be EPA clean. Most of pollution is made during transients. By forbidding you (human being) to directly control transients the management becomes more easy to meet EPA regulations. So if you wanted to use it as a programmable box you would likely have to re-write the main algorithms, which BTW must be very complex.
I believe ME2.1 is still a 16bit ECU. Today I would go a 32bit CPU to be really free to write complex code in C.

[Classic Alfa]

Hi Alpa,
This all looks very promissing , we are currently doing a simular thing in Holland using a 75 TS engine putting on a 155 2,0 TS head which has better airflow using Ducati 916 4 individual throttle bodie's

Now we want to use an exhisting ECU for this and the Motronic one is a good option .

First question , how do you recognise the ML version of the ECU ?

Second , we bougth a Eprom programmer and want to remap the Eprom for use in our configuration .
before we get ti complicated can we use f.i. Tunerpro to remap Motronics ?
tunerpro.com: The Leading Car Stereos Site on the Net

Sorry for my writting its a bit rusty , an answer would be higly appriciated

[alpa]

Hi,
I did not understand if you want only to remap the ML or to change the firmware (what I did).
It'll be very complex to remap ML4.1 box an ITB setup. Because it's a pressure/RPM (and not flow/RPM) management, and because ITB seem to be very sensitive to the ambient pressure, and thus to the exhaust back-pressure. Several guys are still trying to make work AFM-based Motronics with a pressure/RPM setup.
Putting a 16v head is a lot of work. I don't know what's your final goal, however if I was searching to improve the 8v VE I would play with the VVT (look some posts here) and go with a low boost turbo. Why don't you use the 16v engine as is ?
Recognize ML: you'll find a ML3.1 picture on the top page of this NG:
BoschDME : Bosch DME Modifications
ML4.1 looks similar. All later Motronics had a 55pin connector and were based on 801/2xx 44pin or more derivatives.
I don't think you can use modern tuning softwares for old Motronics. I don't use them, try asking on the Chiptuning forum, ECU remapping, OBD, BDM, OBD-II software, chiptuning hardware forum.

[Classic Alfa]

Hi Alpa,
Thanks for the quick reply .
I am not putting a 16V head on an 8V block , just change the head of a 75 TS with a 155 TS , the difference is in the angle of inlet manifold and the water regulation true the head

I was in under the assumption that there where Motronic ECU's which used MAP sensor's , like in the 145 boxer serie's , are there any ?
They migth use GM unit's on the later models , but then I have a problem with the IAC , becuase the are notr a stand alone unit .

Again help would be appriciated

[alpa]

I did not notice this difference on 155 heads. Interesting. I have a 155 1.7 head, it's exactly the same as on the 75TS. And I have a 155/164 TS engine, looks similar to the 75. There is a story about different conrods on late 2L 8v TS, did not check.

The 33 16v was using the same ML4.1 as on 75 1.6/1.8ie, it's the TS ML4.1 with the integrated ignition amplifier. And it had AFM. 33 8v had latest LJetronics with AFM (can not be reprogrammed even if digital). I don't know if they had changed the management on 145.

All later Alfa inline engines had VVT, so AFM was required at that time.
BMW had vanos, Porsche variocam.

MP3.1 (MAP based) was used on Citroen AX GT. All other Opel/Peugeot Motronics were AFM. I believe.