TS & CA smog tests

[Biba69]

I've been wondering how well a stock, not rebuilt, TS passes CA smog tests. No, I'm not remotely in the position of having that problem, but trying to access what I'm eventually going to be up against. Obviously I'm talking about a station which isn't too concerned about the visual part. I do assume it is imperative to have a working catalytic converter to pass. Again, not from the visual inspection but from simply the necessity of passing the tests.

Biba

[slyalfa]

I would think the TS is cleaner. that is why the doge went TS for there hemi
less unburnt gas

[Slapbass]

yep, ts's should theoretically burn cleaner...

[101 Alfa Mike]

Just thinking out loud.

Getting past the visual will be the hard part. Of course its not like the Smog Check guy sees many Alfas. Not sure how detailed the picture is that they pull up on the computor screen.

Does the engine you are replacing have egr? If so, you will need to add egr to the TS to pass visual and to reduce NOx.

[Greg Gordon]

A TS will never pass the visual unless the smog check guy is a moron.

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Gordon A TS will never pass the visual unless the smog check guy is a moron.

[Biba69]

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate any thoughts and suggestions regarding my original question. However, I'll repeat...visual doesn't bother me. I just want to know if someone's installed a TS, whether they used a catalytic converter or not, and how easily did it pass a strict smog test - or not. I have several routes to go depending on how easily they pass or don't pass, based on other TS owner's actual experience.

Biba

[slyalfa]

I would say if the car had a cat that year you will need one with the TS.
the cat makes a big big difference on the dyno. The old idle test the cat sometimes made it worse. but go have a pre test then you will know if the numbers are very bad add a cat and watch the numbers go to almost 0
and a cat installed should be only around $100 do not get ripped off.

[101 Alfa Mike]

Biba,

We are in an Enhanced Smog Check area. The rolling road test here isn't as sophisticated as the Federal Test Proceedure the car was originally certified to, but there is a fairly good correlation. The allows the BAR to really clamp down on the pass/fail specs without fear of many false failures.

In short, you will have to achieve emissions very close to what the car did when it was new. I wouldn't worry about the TS being inherently more polluting than the engine you are replacing. You will need good tuning and, if the car had them before, egr and a catalytic converter.

Mike R

[Biba69]

Cheryl, thanks for your comments. You are correct in that I do know a station which doesn't worry about the visual, though I do understand the DMV/BAR is considering making the stations install a video feed so 'someone' in Sacramento can 'check things over'. Since my daily driver Alfetta is a '75 I've not been there for awhile, so I'm not up to date, but willing to take my chances.

The main reason I'm trying to figure out about the catalytic converter is I have two Alfetta GT Euro exhausts: 2 used Ansa rear portions, one set of very used front and center exhausts and one set of NOS Ansa front and center exhausts.

The used system is on my '75 Alfetta which I'll be replacing the engine in soon. IF I have to have a cat on the other Alfetta where the TS will eventually go (it came with no exhaust) I'll put the NOS parts on the '75 when switching engines. I'll then install the used system on the 'other' Alfetta. Since the resonator is shot (no one seems to make one) I'll then have the cat installed in place of the shot resonator.

However...if I don't need one, I'll install the NOS system on the 'other' Alfetta and find some sort of resonator for the old system or just have a straight pipe welded in to replace it.

Yes, the 'other' Alfetta came with a cat, they all did, but I have no idea if the TS which came from an '85/'86 Alfa 75, which was never imported here, had one or not. I'm sure, at least at that time the Euro 'smog tests' weren't nearly as strict as CA's. But if the engine is very clean burning by design, I'd prefer not to use a cat.

I'm assuming I will need one and as much as I'd like to get one for $100, I've looked at the very compact Miller cats. Not inexpensive but they have one which is 10.5" long x 4" diameter. The Alfa resonator is 9" long x 4" so the cat should fit nicely where the current heat shield is. Miller is also working on one 6" x 3.5".

I hate lumps hanging down from under a car both for aesthetics but also for being able to maneuver over speed bumps.

Biba

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biba69 Cheryl, thanks for your comments. You are correct in that I do know a station which doesn't worry about the visual, though I do understand the DMV/BAR is considering making the stations install a video feed so 'someone' in Sacramento can 'check things over'. Since my daily driver Alfetta is a '75 I've not been there for awhile, so I'm not up to date, but willing to take my chances. The main reason I'm trying to figure out about the catalytic converter is I have two Alfetta GT Euro exhausts: 2 used Ansa rear portions, one set of very used front and center exhausts and one set of NOS Ansa front and center exhausts. The used system is on my '75 Alfetta which I'll be replacing the engine in soon. IF I have to have a cat on the other Alfetta where the TS will eventually go (it came with no exhaust) I'll put the NOS parts on the '75 when switching engines. I'll then install the used system on the 'other' Alfetta. Since the resonator is shot (no one seems to make one) I'll then have the cat installed in place of the shot resonator. However...if I don't need one, I'll install the NOS system on the 'other' Alfetta and find some sort of resonator for the old system or just have a straight pipe welded in to replace it. Yes, the 'other' Alfetta came with a cat, they all did, but I have no idea if the TS which came from an '85/'86 Alfa 75, which was never imported here, had one or not. I'm sure, at least at that time the Euro 'smog tests' weren't nearly as strict as CA's. But if the engine is very clean burning by design, I'd prefer not to use a cat. I'm assuming I will need one and as much as I'd like to get one for $100, I've looked at the very compact Miller cats. Not inexpensive but they have one which is 10.5" long x 4" diameter. The Alfa resonator is 9" long x 4" so the cat should fit nicely where the current heat shield is. Miller is also working on one 6" x 3.5". I hate lumps hanging down from under a car both for aesthetics but also for being able to maneuver over speed bumps. Biba

[slyalfa]

if the car had a cat with the old motor you will need one with the TS. it does not matter what the TS had in the EU. what maters is the test is set up for a car with a cat. and I think you will get no where close to passing with out one.

now I think about it I think any car that has to be smoged is a cat car. any thing older does not need to be smoged anyways anymore.

[randyleepublic]

If you have a '75, it doesn't need to be smogged. For later years, yes. Besides what has been mentioned, you will need to install an air injection pump, although that is pretty much a visual item. I guess my point is that I think with a bit of clever retrofitting, a TS could pass visual as well as emissions. Last item: the infamous heat riser and "duct". All that dookie could easily be fitted to a TS and then why shouldn't it pass visual? Heck, if need be, you just explain that your brother took your head to his machine shop and customized the look with a cool plug wire cover and customized the graphics also.

What's the diff? After you are done setting up the TS to pass, they are both fuel injected, twin cam, aluminum block and head, 4 cylinders, with air-injection, heat riser, and a cat, oh yeah, and a PCV valve. I doubt even a sharp guy at one of those stations would recognise that your injection was electronic instead of mechanical. In other words, I doubt that the visual inspection list says anything but "fuel injection", and doesn't qualify the term.

[iachella]

I agree with Randy about the visual. Even though Biba is not concerned with the visual, I am (unless I can find a smog guy that will put the sensor in the tail pipe and leave the hood down - send me a PM if anyone knows a place in the Bay Area).

The TS should pass the sniffer no problem. Pay attention to the fuel plug to see if the ECU is expecting a cat in the system.

For the visual, I'm in the middle of this. My Alfetta has been running well for about 5 months with a cat and no air injection. I have started working with a machine shop about making air rail bungs for the exhaust manifold. Merrit Carden did it for me on a set of Euro Nord manifolds so it can be done. The pump brackets fit on the TS as the oil pan is the same and has the threaded holes for it. I need to figure out a v-grove pulley on it to mate up to the crank pulley, which has two extra groves. If that fails, I have an electric air pump from a later model car I can mount just about anywhere.

Spica is fuel injected, so is a TS, just different kind. The manual just says FI. I'm still a little concerned he would start investigating when he sees 8 plug wires. The excuse of a custom job is not bad. Otherwise, the engine runs fine with 4. One set could be removed and the plate put over it and he would never know that part. Easier to hide the distributor under the intake with some kind of cover than to hide the one on the exhaust cam.

I'll report back my successes or failure. I have until January to figure this out.
I plan to have a 'dry test' done soon withouth all this stuff, just to see how clean the TS is.

[Biba69]

Stefano, I'll be interested as to how your 'dry run' works out. I'm much more a 'spirit of the law' than 'letter of the law' person. Hypothetically if 50K cars in CA were in about the same situation as the nord - meaning getting difficult to pass a smog test - then all the owners installed later, more fuel efficient/cleaner burning engines, they'd be doing the air quality in the state a huge favor. Even if they left off a few 'items'.

I do understand the visual test since I'm sure many of the non-original engines installed would be 'souped up' (to use a quaint phrase) and possibly be worse smog wise.

Boy is that air rail thing ugly that one 'has' to attach to the exhaust manifold, not to mention the stock (for Alfa) air pump.

To me, put the sniffer in and do the rolling road bit and if it passes it's good to go. If it doesn't pass, then they lift the hood.

If you've been doing business with a smog station, why not ask them how important it is for them to do 'a visual' before testing, or better yet, before ruining that pretty TS.

Biba