TwinSpark MegaSquirt conversion - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #46 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madk4speed View Post
..... make your life simpler?....... Use 2 BIP373 Bosch ignitions transtistors
Hi mate - I'm coming to that realisation myself - always a bit slow on the uptake.

Are you triggering two coils per single BIP373 ? I'm finding conflicting information about doing this. I'm quite tempted by the Bosch 211 module for a nice clean compact mount. Will cost about the same as two bip373s, but you get 4 channels (and can tie the input channels together without modification to the MS2 ....

ie :
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post #47 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGeorgi View Post
Mate, I have drooled over that thread a few times in the past - but didn't connect the dots ! Amazing standard of work there - thanks for posting all that info !

Cheers,

Scott Murray
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post #48 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-28-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aikendrum105 View Post
Hi mate - I'm coming to that realisation myself - always a bit slow on the uptake.

Are you triggering two coils per single BIP373 ? I'm finding conflicting information about doing this. I'm quite tempted by the Bosch 211 module for a nice clean compact mount. Will cost about the same as two bip373s, but you get 4 channels (and can tie the input channels together without modification to the MS2 ....

ie :
MS2-Extra Ignition Hardware Manual

You just need 4 BIP373. I have to apologise for not uploading yet any photos.
I will make up for that really soon.
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post #49 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mad - it was more the logic driver section of the circuit than the high-current output:



Just needed to confirm I could pair the logic inputs of the 211 or BIP373 pairs without sinking too much current from the SparkA and SparkB outputs of the MS.

All good !

Cheers,

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post #50 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 06:26 PM
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Definitely not a problem on the 211 thats how I have it wired on mine.

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post #51 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Cheers Alex - Did you use any current limiting resistors, or just run straight from the MS outputs to the 211 Input ?

Cheers !

Scott Murray
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post #52 of 99 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 06:24 PM
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I run a logic level signal with a 5V pullup and a 470ohm resistor from the LED leg to the 211 inputs

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post #53 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Some progress !

started to get some fuel starvation issues with the webers / dodgy electric fuel pump and decided to get on with it and put the MS3 on the car.

Initially was going to cobble the motronic intake back onto the car - but wanted to hang onto the ITBs for intake noise if nothing else..

I had a SPICA injection manifold I'd picked up many moons ago and set about fitting it to the car. Made up an adapter plate to re-use the bellcrank / return springs etc and fitted it up to the car.

It looked like this.
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post #54 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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I noticed as I got it together that there was quite a bit of wear on the butterflies - fair bit of side/side play even when closed (and so a fair bit of light coming past the closed throttles on the edges)

Rather than try and fix them up, I'd read about folks using motorbike ITBs as a cost-effective alternative to the fairly expensive weber style injection ITBs you can purchase. AGeorgi has a great thread about exactly this. (thanks ! )

Started hunting around on fleabay for a set, and reading about the best way to manage ITBs with a megasquirt.

Typically with ITBs you have a either a tradeoff of using Vacuum + revs to calc fuel - ( which is great at partial throttle and ordinary up around WOT) or using ThrottlePosition and Revs to calc fuel (which is great at the top end, but ordinary for partial throttle / small throttle changes eg cruising etc)

This page explains it much better than I do.. Tuning ITBs - 77e21.info

Then I discovered the recently released MS3 ECU upgrade for the Megasquirt comes with 'ITB Mode' which makes all of that very very easy again. So I ordered the upgrade card, found some 38mm ITBs from a GSXR-600/750 at a local bike wrecker and set to.

These throttles are individual cast units mounted together with spacers and held as a unit by long bolts running through their length. To fit the TS engine, the new spacers had to be made and some longer bolts sorted. threaded rod is a very easy way to do it, or use a die to cut threads on the ends of plain rod.

Had the injectors cleaned / serviced and flowed to make sure they were consistent, refitted them and re-used the original motronic loom as much as I could. The AFM connector was re-tasked for the TPS (a new bosch connector fitted to the GSX ITB TPS to match) and the original Primary coil pack connector was a perfect match for the Bosch 211 ignition module input I'm using to drive my wasted spark coilpacks.

So then it looked like this:
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'66 Giulia Super 105.28.720988 -- TwinSpark+MS3+ITB+COP
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post #55 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Got the throttle cable in , welded up a plate to provide a cable mount at the accelerator end which uses the old throttle pull eyelet on the top of the accelerator arm as the new cable pull.

Cobbled up a return pipe in the fuel tank sender, and mounted up the swirl pot, low and high pressure pumps and the new hard fuel feed line up to the engine bay.
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post #56 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Completed the MS2 v3 motherboard buildup - the kits from DIYAutoTune are very well packed and easy to use. If you've ever soldered up an electronics kit from Jaycar sucessfully you'll be able to make one.

The current version of TunerStudio MS is amazing - really easy to setup (even though there are so many options..)

The smaller board on the left with the trim pots is a 'stimulator' board you can also buy and assemble - it pretends to be a running engine - so you can test the operation of your ECU before fitting to the car - or troubleshoot later if you need to.

The white board is the MS3 ECU upgrade daughterboard. This also adds SD card logging, and a USB port (so you don't need a USB->Serial adaptor for the std serial port on the mainboard)


Finally blanked off the Primary dizzy - feels good to get rid of that.
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post #57 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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I did use one thing from the SPICA manifold - this mini vacuum manifold joins the vacuum feeds from each ITB, provides a 5th outlet to feed the vacuum sensor in the ECU, and also a large fitting (previously the SPICA Idle air opening) which will now connect to the Motronic PWM Idle air valve - allowing the ECU to control idle speed.

This mounted to the bar I used to hold the injector blankoff plugs into the GSX ITBs.
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post #58 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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Lots of progress this weekend.

a couple of vids - idling (the ticking is the injectors - the valvetrain is a little noisy too - need to check the chain tension)

The mess of spark plug leads is temporary - just making do with what I had at hand until I settle on coil locations or COP.

The little red/white sensor hanging in front of the throttle bodies is the Intake Air Temp sensor - will be bolted into the airbox when I get to it. The VVT is disconnected while I sorted out the output programming.


and a quick squirt up the hill. The spark advance curve is conservative (max 28 degrees) at the moment while the MS ECU uses the WideBand O2 sensor to learn the optimum fuelling values for different load areas. Just need to drive it so it can dial itself in.

The VVT *is* kicking in at the moment at 50% throttle and +1250rpm - but will ideally also trigger a change in spark advance when active.



Scott Murray
'04 156 JTS Sportwagon -- brilliant car for the daily, kids taxi and parts hauling

in officina -
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'65 Giulia Sprint GT 105.04.753710

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Last edited by aikendrum105; 08-12-2012 at 06:13 AM.
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post #59 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 08:52 PM
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Great progress Scott.

Did you choke down the vacuum lines any further or does the spica piece provide a large enough expansion chamber to dampen the pulses?

I'm running the Alfaholics ignition right now, but I started down the MS (MS-II) path using the same throttle bodies you are. The Ford coil packs in the Alfaholics kit are nice improvement over the distributors.

Regards,
Lawrence

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post #60 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-15-2012, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks !

the Spica piece is hollow inside - maybe 20mls, it's more likely the 1.5m vacuum line to the ECU in the car that's forming a plenum to dampen the pulses.

Looking at the composite logger - MAP seems pretty clean...

The ITB tuning mode in the MS3 I'm using takes a bit to get your head around - but a few learned mates are pointing me in the right direction

A good friend is running the AH ignition and loves it. I didn't realise they were motorcraft coils - they are highly recommended by the tuners in the states I hear.

I was using the Motorcraft EDIS wasted spark coils (without the EDIS) without any probs, switched to a pair of the more compact DIYAutoTune 4 towers for a neater install, then moved them from the intake to exhaust side to tidy it up for the airbox, but I'm going to fit some COP units from the same GSXR I sourced the ITBs from to really tidy things up. (and because I'm silly that way) Will still run them wasted spark in serial pairs off the same Bosch 211.

The pencil coils are Denso 129700-4150/4400, about 3.5 inches from the top of the plug ceramic to the bottom of the electrical connector on the top. Shortest / smallest diameter plugs I've found so far.

Amazed at how many tuning options the MS3 + MS3X expansion board gives you.... fantastic stuff for so few pennies.
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'66 Giulia Super 105.28.720988 -- TwinSpark+MS3+ITB+COP
'65 Giulia Sprint GT 105.04.753710

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Last edited by aikendrum105; 08-15-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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