123ignition distributor - 15000 miles road test - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #16 of 212 (permalink) Old 03-30-2010, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
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That curve provides 37 degrees of advance at 4900 rpm. Someone posted the curve a few years ago - probably Jim Neal.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #17 of 212 (permalink) Old 03-30-2010, 03:59 AM
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Click below for the 123 ignition curves #4 & #9.
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post #18 of 212 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 01:50 PM
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123Ignition & Crane XR3000?

Has anyone successfully paired the 123Ignition with the Crane XR3000 ignition module and, if so, could you share a wiring diagram? The Crane has a 3 wire molex plug (wires are white, gray & black) that's intended to work with their optically triggered distributor. The 123Ignition has two wires - red & black. I'm wondering which wire is ignored and which two are used.

Thanks,

Mike
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post #19 of 212 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 04:03 PM
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Crane unit

It will not trigger the 3000 series Crane (bottom of the line)
It will trigger their better units that have inputs for both type electronic signals.

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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post #20 of 212 (permalink) Old 06-13-2010, 10:39 AM
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Another 123 Believer

I replaced the stock 80-81 retard-advance Marelli-Plex distributor and coil yesterday with a 123 distributor, a Bosch high energy coil, and Lumenition silicone wires ( all sourced from Classic Alfa in the UK for less, including shipping, then the same distributor alone here in the US). I set the advance curve to 045 and on my first test drive I found a very noticeable increase in power and drivability throughout the range, and I have yet to retune the carbs (will get to that today). I am very pleased with the setup. What a difference a decent advance curve can make!

It should run even better once I get the RJR cams I ordered installed...can't wait!

Andy
81 Spider - 1980 VIN
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post #21 of 212 (permalink) Old 04-19-2012, 10:31 PM
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Hey does anyone know if you can get a replacement bosch cap for the 123 distributor from a local auto shop? Does it match up with something stock (VW maybe) or do I have to order from IAP?

My distributor cap broke the piece that rides on the center of the rotor already!

Thx, gene

Gene
'71 GTV 1750 USA SPICA
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post #22 of 212 (permalink) Old 05-27-2012, 10:58 AM
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Just read the thread with a lot of interest.
I have a Giulia Super from 1972 with a fairly warm motor.
I had the car on a rolling dyno last week and we were only able to get 146BHP out of the engine. At the same time it also had trouble falling back from high revs - settled at around 3.000 rpm every time.
Looks like I am in for either a new stock distributor or a 123.
It seems that there is a lot of advantages with the 123 in comparison with a stock one.

And while 146BHP is a nice power output in combination with the drivetrain, shouldn't it be giving even more considering the engine modifications - together with 46 DCOE Webers.

The car has been built for fast road & track days The engine, gearbox, diff and suspension have all be optimized with lots and lots of great parts:
High compression forged AE pistons 10.4:1 and the head has been shaved a full 1.2mm
Conrods/connecting rods have been blueprinted/balanced
Inlet valves are 46mm from BMW
Exhaust valves are 38mm stainless steel
Camshafts are Colombo & Bariani AR.ST1 292/292 degree

Rear axle is 2000GTV with LSD with a 1600GTJ 4.56:1
Front suspension has new bushings, adjustable camber, and hub, ventilated discs and 2-pot caliber from a Montreal.
The Gearbox is a special built unit from Finland - close ratio (FIA - specs) as GTA :
1. 2.54
2. 1.70
3. 1.26
4. 1.00
5. 0.86

So my questions are:
1.) Will the 123 be the the right choice compared to a stock, rebuilt unit?
2.) Is there a chance that the new distributor will solve the fast idle problem - the carbs are in total balance and mixture is fine, if a little bit rich up through the rev range
3.) There is not a support for the carb. flange - can this influence the high idle speed?? Carbs are mounted with solid aluminium mounts and not rubber ones!

Any help will be appreciated.

P
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post #23 of 212 (permalink) Old 05-27-2012, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Is there a chance that the new distributor will solve the fast idle problem - the carbs are in total balance and mixture is fine, if a little bit rich up through the rev range
Probably yes. I am using the "006 tuning" curve and my engine idles at about 700 rpm. I had the high idle problems when I used the "Shankle" curve. I have RJ136/785 cams.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #24 of 212 (permalink) Old 05-27-2012, 04:13 PM
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Hi Per, I have an engine which sounds quite similar to yours -- I got a 123 distributor and with the 006 curve it dynoed about 180 bhp -- which was fine. However I was never able to get it running consistantly well on any of the curves.
I have since gone to an RML with MSD and the motor has been fine since, I think the MSD is one of the best things I have done to the car.
I then put the 123 on a mild 2 litre using the 045 curve and it ran great, started easily, idled, gave good power etc, I trailered it to a track day 2 weeks ago and the 123 decided to give itself 40 degrees of advance at idle ( straight off the trailer ), car was undrivable of course so I put in an old points dist. for the weekend, the engine was just as powerful, started just as easily, didn't idle so well. Not sure if I am going to put any more time into the 123 or turn it into a museum piece.
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post #25 of 212 (permalink) Old 05-30-2012, 12:19 PM
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Have other's had similar problems with their 123 that Hans-Peter is having?

I've been planning on getting a 123 for my clients fairly warmish 1600 engine. He's becoming a bit more cost conscious as the restoration of his '66 GTV continues, so the last thing I want is to have an expensive distributor turn into a doorstop.

Do they have a decent return policy? Often electrical items are 'no returns' deals.

Biba

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post #26 of 212 (permalink) Old 05-30-2012, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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I have had no trouble with mine in 4.5 years and several tens of thousands of miles. Mine has been hooked to an MSD 6AL for quite a while. I have a high energy Blaster coil and my plug gaps are set at .055" and there is no sign of breakdown in the distributor cap. Prior to that I used a Bosch Blue coil.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #27 of 212 (permalink) Old 08-26-2012, 11:18 AM
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Distributor Cap and Rotor Condition with MSD 6AL2

Hi Ed, you mentioned that you didn't have any problems with the condition of the distributor cap, lucky you! I've just done about 2000kms, maybe a bit more, and here is the condition of my cap and rotor (I am running the MSD 6AL2 programmable with the stock dizzy (advance locked out)) . yowza! I noticed that starting the car was a bit less crisp than when I first installed the system, so figured that it was probably due to a slight shift of the timing (from wear of the points) as the points are still the trigger for the programmable ignition (although high current no longer flows through the points). of course the points gap had reduced to about .25mm instead of .35 to .40 so this of course means a shift in the advance, and the condition of the points was near perfect, but the condition of the rotor and cap was quite surprising, I put a new cap and rotor on when I installed the ignition (so 2000-ish kms). I reset the points gap to 0.4mm and replaced the cap and rotor with the original ones I took off when installing the MSD (which wern't really worn much), and of course everything is great, as new. Is this what your cap and rotor look like? I can't say for sure that this is the cause of the (very slight) deterioration of performance of the ignition as it could have been simply the shift in advance from the points wear. But certainly I've never seen this amout of "burning" on the cap and rotor with the standard ignition. Still not complaining though, the ignition is truely excellent, and transforms the low end behaviour of the car.
cheers / andrew
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post #28 of 212 (permalink) Old 08-26-2012, 11:24 AM
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here is a slightly better photo of distributor cap
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69 1750gtv / 73 2000spider / 91 Spider (daily driver)
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post #29 of 212 (permalink) Old 08-26-2012, 12:09 PM
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What`s the point?

This has nothing to do with the MSD unit. Obviously a worn out points dist that needs new bushings and shims to locate the shaft correctly.

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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post #30 of 212 (permalink) Old 08-26-2012, 12:48 PM
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just thought it might be related to the higher energy pulse going across the gap, as I have never seen this before installing the MSD unit (using same distributor). By the way, there is no "gouging" on the rotor or cap (ie no wear from contact), it is all a carbon deposit, and it actually cleans off pretty well.

69 1750gtv / 73 2000spider / 91 Spider (daily driver)
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