an invitation for aftermarket EFI people..

[alpa]

Hi Hagen,

Very very interesting what you saying here !

The thread stopped but the work continues .
I did not test the shim system because I gave up track usage of my 75TS, it's now a daily driver car of my wife. The ML4.1 has 2 1D maps to turn VVT on/off depending on the RPM.
I wrote my own programmable firmware for ML4.1 which manages a static ignition on my Mini 1000, injection will come later (rather complicated with siam ports).

So you are going to use 155 static ignition Motronic. Which means the 55pin box, right ? As you say you work with Bosch would you be able to get specs of custom chips TA13255A and the other which was new compared to ML4.1 ? This is a blocking point for many M1.3 hackers, including myself.

The TPS conversion means re-write all the load calculation code. Beware, I found a bug (a limitation ) in the Motronic map access procedure, I can provide you the fix. Another guy working with a BMW M3 Motronic (6Mhz) found bugs in the ignition firing ITs, the advance timing could miss up to 3 teeth at high revs (7000RPM).

Do you know the BoschDME yahoo news group ? And checksumm forum ?

Alexis

[giuliettaevo]

VVT works from both angles... it comes when a certain point in the rev range is passed or when more than a certain percentage of power is asked for. i believe it was 3000rpm and 40% load applied to the engine...

[Hagen]

Hi Alexis,
big respects about what You are doing by programming these chips by developing Your own algorithms, coding them and do the calibration.
What I am doing with the ML4.1 or the M1.7 is to use the original SW, changing the parameters online during the engine running. Only a recalibration of the adjustable parameters at the correct addresses is done to change the outputs like injection and ignition timing depending of the input informations, like load and engine speed e.g. Otherwise it is very time consuming to do the optimisation at each engine brake point.
What You wrote about the bug which You found i am not 100 percent sure about what You mean. Ignition advance is calibrated via different parameters. Many things come into play. Old systems of course do not use these many possibilities of algorithms which determine spark timing. For example in the ML.4.1 there is no Knock detection which could take influence to the ignition timing dependend on knocking voice detection and retard control.
Basically ignition timing is physically dependend on temperatures pressures, engine loads and engine speed. Therefore it is necessary to set the timing to every crankshaft angle whichever is physically adviseable inbetween the limitations like knocking ( early ignition), or exhaust heat build up (late ignition), or misfiring limitations, as well as the burning stability of the actual charge. Of course fuel efficiancy and power as well as emmisions are the targets to be optimised depending of the working points of the engine.
So it is well possible that the BMW which You are talking about is retarding the timing at higher revolutions. At rev limitation speeds with these old engines without catalysts and no electronic throttle mechanism, torque is reduces by injection cut off or reducing ignition advance could be possible too. Systems with E-throttles reduce Throttle angle via load intervention. Means that the torque demand is reduced inspite of the driver is pressing the pedal to the metal. This is more familiar to the catalysts and the fuel consumption.

Hope You could follow my explanations, as my english is far away from perfect. But there should be enough literature, e.g the Bosch Yellow prospects about Motronic or the Bosch technical literature

Hagen

[alpa]

Bugs I'm talking about have been checked. Mine: I wrote a fix because I'm using original Bosch procedures in my code.
The M3 guy knows enough about the code to claim there are several bugs in the timing management. He's tuning a true race M3 so maps were altered a long time ago and are well known. Note that this M3 uses a 6Mhz CPU, however BMW were also using the 60-2 pulley so there are lots of chances the code remained the same as in latter ECUs.
If I understand well you are plainning to use an old Motronic on a bike. I know no one who would succeed to make run ML4.1 above 6500RPM, with spikes at 7200 RPM.
The tooth management code is very heavy and it's difficult to imagine it would run at 8000 RPM.

How are you going to make a TPS conversion without code changes ?
- how about accel/decel enrichment (which is very particular/simplified with the flap AFM)
- estimated altitude correction
- M1.7 canister management that would alter TPS angle->flow function ?
I'm even not sure the ECU will be able to follow fast bike RPM changes.
Of course it will work in steady state. But transients will be another piece of cake !

I think you'd better use a Marelli IAW box, they are all using MAP and TPS. You could alter values to rely on TPS in transients and use the MAP in steady state. I found old IAW much more easier to understand and to hack than Motronics.

[CorseChris]

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I'm using an Emerald M3DK ECU on my 12V V6 motor (a UK based system). Currently running it TPS only but will go hybrid once the supercharger installation is complete.

I used an earlier version on a V8 Rover engine some years back with the dizzy providing the timing reference. One thing that I don't think has been mentioned here is that using this method, you inevitably get a bit of timing 'scatter' as there is play in the drive to the dizzy (even with the advance mechanism locked off), and as it is rotating at half crank speed, you reduce effective resolution so accuracy takes a double hit. Crank trigger is always going to be best if you can manage it.

[alpa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorseChris I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I'm using an Emerald M3DK ECU on my 12V V6 motor (a UK based system). Currently running it TPS only but will go hybrid once the supercharger installation is complete.

[CorseChris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpa There is a big difference between using an aftermarket programmable ECU which supports lots of modes and using the original ECU in the mode it was not made for.

[alpa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorseChris I used an earlier version on a V8 Rover engine some years back with the dizzy providing the timing reference. One thing that I don't think has been mentioned here is that using this method, you inevitably get a bit of timing 'scatter' as there is play in the drive to the dizzy (even with the advance mechanism locked off), and as it is rotating at half crank speed, you reduce effective resolution so accuracy takes a double hit. Crank trigger is always going to be best if you can manage it.

[junglejustice]

1) Well, on the V6 cars for example - in the base scenario - we run a Standard GoTech MFI - the hall-effect lead from the custom plug-and-play harness that comes with it plugs right in to the standard little blue hall-sender on the side of the V6 Alfa distributors! (Unplug the vacuum-advance and call it good!) Works great!

This is the budget way to go, but there is the potential dizzy-to-crank slop as referenced before to think about however, I think that since the engine only spins in one direction, it likely takes up any slack and keeps it in one position for the most part! It works great on my current street-car setup!

2) On the 164 12 valve or 24 valve conversions though, we plug right in to the standard Alfa/Bosch 60-2 crank-trigger sensors and run the GoTech Pro middle-child models with remote coil-packs (a 6-pack brick of 3 x 2 coils!) One thing to keep in mind is that even with the coil-on-plug 24 valve models, Alfa still ran wasted spark! So, even if you kept the 6 COPs, the Pro would still fire them 1&5, 4&3, 2&6. We run it that way on street and track cars without a problem! Very smooth and effective.

3) If you REALLY must have full sequential, the new GoTech Pro-X top end model allows you to run both the 60-2 crank pick-up as well as an input from the back of the one cam! (Here again, the Alfa 24 valvers have the cam trigger-wheel on the back of one of the actual cams already, as well as a magnetic pickup (same part as the crank sensor, accept with a shorter lead), on the back of the head! Now you can run FULL sequential!

The Pro middle-child model in point number 2 above can be installed to run full sequential on a 4 cylinder!