08-12-2008, 06:34 AM
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Posts: 133
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yeah, I'm not reinventing the wheel, just mixing a bunch of ideas that I like into my own creation.
Proofs in the pudding, if I stuff something up...I'll leanr from it, then fix it :-)...simple. I prefer less theorising and more action....well I like to run the calcs, but then I just have a crack and see what happens, that's half the fun right?
Well customs have kindly allowed me to pay gst, service fee and an import tax, totalling about 400 bucks...so kind....I really feel like I am getting value on the 10% gst charged on the postage and handling from the US to AUS...and not quite sure how they justify that!
Should have the gear in about 1-2weeks once they take my money. I'll post a pick once I get it, should look the goods.
On a side note I had the groups s GTV out at sanddown for a track day, ate a Honda integra type r (on the straight, whipped in the corners) and a late 90s BMW M5 (in the corners, he had more mumbo in a straight line)....had a blast. Cant wait get the GT out there with boosted help....then it will be M5 in the straight and the corners heh heh.
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08-12-2008, 11:12 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Adelaide SA
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can some one please tell me where to get turbo manifolds for the 1.8 and 2.0 motors or if any other from another car will fit on. ???
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08-12-2008, 11:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney Australia
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Duk
Because you don't want the inside of your engine to look like..... the inside of an engine...... 
V8 Supercar engine builders have been doing something similar for ever and a day  |
You have to do it to some early Ferrari engines because their castings are porous ... that is why they were painted on the outside originally too.
Pete
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ps: Remember it's all just opinions 
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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08-13-2008, 02:40 AM
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm_X
can some one please tell me where to get turbo manifolds for the 1.8 and 2.0 motors or if any other from another car will fit on. ???
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i cavalli mai abbastanza, ed il peso sempre troppo...
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08-13-2008, 05:19 AM
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I got my manifold in Aus, they pop up from time to time. I know for fact there is one floating around somewhere on the east coast of Tas. There in lies the challenge....finding one :-)
The factory cast manifolds are great as far as durability goes, no crack issues. To get a custom job (a good one), you'll probably fork out about 1500, and thats just the runners, not dump pipe.
WJM rotary and Rank Rotary are two custome places in melbourne that I have had very good experiences with in the past on custom manifolds (I dabble in rotaries as well) and they work on anything. Peter at Rank is especially good with stainless turbo manifolds and a great guy.
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08-13-2008, 08:27 PM
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to be honest i am doing it in a budget. custom manifold will cost to much for me atm as i want to do a good job on another morot once my one atm goes.
is there any chance of a manifold of any other sort of model car fitting onto the nord motor at all ??
or my friend said buy a s13 sr20 manifold cut the flange off and make a flange to fit the the nord morot and reweld it.. ????
has any one in australia or adelaide got a turbo nord motor at all out there ? for tips ??
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08-14-2008, 02:30 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm_X
to be honest i am doing it in a budget. custom manifold will cost to much for me atm as i want to do a good job on another morot once my one atm goes.
is there any chance of a manifold of any other sort of model car fitting onto the nord motor at all ??
or my friend said buy a s13 sr20 manifold cut the flange off and make a flange to fit the the nord morot and reweld it.. ????
has any one in australia or adelaide got a turbo nord motor at all out there ? for tips ??
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Read Making Turbo Manifolds, Part 2.
The biggest challenge (strangley enough) is actually getting the head flange made with the ports cut at the correct angle.
If/when you get to making a manifold, I wouldn't reccomend MIG welding. In the land of industrial welding, it is only TIG and a skilled arc welder that are used in pressure vessel welding. That and (in my experiance) MIG welding tends to cause a localised embrittlement of the parent metal on either side of the weld.
If you follow the Autospeed article method of making the manifold but getting someone else to weld it, make sure you grind a weld prep. chamfer on each piece that has to be welded. A 45 degree chamfer that is aproximately 2/3 the thickness of the material wall is preferred.
Only use 'steam pipe' (butt weld fittings as they are correctly known). I found that ONESTEEL Metal Land (sorry for the advert  ) are cheeper and are more likely to have the pieces in stock than Blackwoods. Straight pipe is not so easy to find, unless you buy a full length (6mtrs  ), but that isn't too rude in price, just way overkill. Look for speciallist manufactures who do things like make trailers or do hydraulic pipework. You won't nead much straight pipe.
Put effort into making a propper collector (log manifolds are just wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Don't listen to those who say otherwise.)
Smooth bends and propper collector design will improve manifold flow, reduce back pressure and improve turbo response and outright power.
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Don't worry what other people think, they don't do it very often.
Alfa 75 Potenziata
Supercharged AW11 MR2 (soon to be twincharged  )
RB20DET S13 Silvia
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08-14-2008, 05:54 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 198
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I haven't looked for a manifold (cos I've got a real one, which is pretty average, but originality matters). As Duk says, you would need to find a similar sized engine. I believe the Mazda DOC head is very similar size to alfa but the exhaust ports are oval so that won't work. In any case the nord wide valve angle and angled sides on the head make for a fairly unusual (dramatically upwards wrt the face of the port) direction of flow, never mind actually ending up with sensible packaging. You might be best off (shame about the current state of the oz dollar) seeing how much Jim Steck can supply a log manifold for (don't ask for the next couple of weeks - next week is Speedweek....).
In all seriousness, It would be cheaper and easier to drop in a whole SR20DET...
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Darryl
'81 Autodelta Turbo Alfetta (perpetual project)
'91 75 Twinspark (not so daily driver)
'88 Jaguar XJ40 Sovereign (the wifes car/she that must be maintained)
Cannondale road bike (daily peddler)
Colnago road bike - old, Italian, steel, and no rust
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08-14-2008, 11:20 AM
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Location: Irwindale, CA USA
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"(don't ask for the next couple of weeks - next week is Speedweek....)"
Will Burt Munro be there again?
Biba
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08-14-2008, 06:37 PM
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Location: Sydney Australia
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If you cannot make an exhaust manifold, I cannot see how you can do such a conversion ... without paying somebody else a fortune!!
As a cheap compromise is it possible to put the turbo on the end of the standard cast manifold? ... I know it is long, but ...
Pete
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ps: Remember it's all just opinions
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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08-14-2008, 09:17 PM
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You can put a turbo on the end of the stock manifold, however there are serious drawbacks for both performance and reliability. Yes, it's a pain, and yes it's going to be expensive, but good manifolds are pretty important for a turbo project.
Greg
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08-17-2008, 12:21 AM
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Personally, every time a mate asks me about cheap turbo projects, and in the same breath says they can't do the work themselves, I just tell them there is no such thing. If 1500 sounds like too much to get the turbo manifolding done (and you can't make it) then this is the wrong project for you. Turbos onto non turbo motors are expensive, period, no ifs no butts. You have to pay someone 80 bucks to pick up a welder these days, and if you've seen how long it takes to jig up a manifold from scratch then you'll soon realise where the money goes...very time consumeing.
I seriously considered dropping in a turbo rotor or sr20, or fj20 instead of useing the alfa motor, these would have been quite a lot cheaper all said and done as the engines are built for the task. I came to conclusion that the Alfa motor would be a fun challenge and I would end up with a package that would not offend an alfisti. It will end up being expensive, that's for certain ;-).
I love Turbo's so it has to be turbos for me, I'd suggest you just save your pennies and do it over a number of years, your patience will result in a car you can be proud of and you will have learnt a lot along the way.
Now back to my project! Engine is back on the stand ready to be assembled. Crank is ground, rods sized, and assembly balanced.
Sad news is we have decided that my sleeves are no good on 2 of them, so I will be ordering a new set from Vin come monday. Mono sleeve is already on order for engine number 2. The stupid thing is I already machined the buggered sleeves to accept o-rings so now I have to do that again./....note to self, hone sleeves before oringing! So that will prob set me back a week I guess...might do a better job second time round anyway :-)
Rods and pistons turn up on my door step on Monday from the USA, will have to post a pick when the goodies arrive.
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08-17-2008, 12:24 AM
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oh, also, on the pistons, they sat proud of the deck by a smidgen, so we got a little nervous with high rpm/boost application and decided to machine a smidgen off the piston OD to ensure amply clearance, that should now allow a bit over 1mm piston to head clearance...a little insurance shall we say.
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08-17-2008, 07:29 AM
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I agree with buzzed. Regarding cheap turbo projects, someone on this forum once said "Fast, Cheap, Reliable, Pick any two". That couldn't be more true. There really isn't a good inexpensive way around the manifold issue unless you can make it yourself. Even then it will take a lot of time and still cost a fair amount in materials. Check the price on 321 stainless! Of course you could use 304 or some other options, but still...
Since this is a twin charged thread, I will mention that the same basic issues are a factor in supercharging projects. While there is no exhaust manifolding issue, attachment brackets, belt alignment, pulleys and belt tensioner all have to be dealt with. Belt alignment has to be within about .020" so accurate work is needed. If you can't do it yourself, it's expensive. (note: it's possible to avoid the precision needed for belt alignment by going with the old style v-belt, but your boost will be limited to about 5psi in most cases.)
Greg,
hiperformancestore.com
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08-17-2008, 08:50 AM
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We can't all be buzzed. Glad to see you're back. I was about to say "see what happens to yer thread when left unattended for too long..."
Just keeping an Alfa on the road with everything working is not for the feeble hearted, much less putting your arms (and pocket) around a bold project.
By my count, there are approximately 13 project 116/119 cars that started off hot and heavy & fizzled out for the most part. These types of projects require a lot of determination, skill (somebody's), and of course, a fair amount of capital.
This project's very interesting and I hope it stay's the course and brings the originator (Buzzed) a lot of gratification and experience for the rest of us tuning-in.
Last edited by ToonRboy; 08-17-2008 at 05:24 PM.
Reason: typo
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