8v 2l Twin Charged -my Little Project

[Biba69]

"...kinda talks me into a twin spark head though hey?!....NO!....I must resist."

First TS head I saw in the mid-80's was installed on a Nord block. There were several coolant lines running from the top of the head to...to...I'm thinking, I'm thinking. Okay, don't remember but was told that the coolant pasages didn't line up so this was the solution. I now understand they do line up, but IF you do go with the TS head, why not use the block? And no, I don't own stock in the used 75 TS biz.

I wouldn't guarantee you'd get an answer, but why not email Jim Steck at info@autocomponenti.com and ask him why he/Besic's switched to the TS for the 2nd (3rd?) successful run at Bonneville?

Since the 75 TS was sold in OZ, I wouldn't think there would be any parts problems. Better late than never but a few Alfa parts suppliers are stocking basic parts for the TS in the US.

Couldn't the exhaust header/turbo piping be modified from the Nord's angled head to vertical for the TS? And, cm'on, cams aren't that expensive to use as justification for using a Nord engine. I have a very small shop, but I have about a dozen Nord engines either in cars or loose, so I have nothing against them. I have only one (loose) TS.

Again fawlty memory, but someone has come up with a much smaller clutch for the transaxle, which can withstand considerably more HP, and believe it has twin discs, though I couldn't find the info.

I have a theory and that it is possible, at least in the US, it might take a group of transaxle folks to continue having donuts/guibos made. I'd guess one set for the 4-cylinder and one set for the 6-cylinder. I can't help but believe that either the design and/or materials could be improved upon. Several months ago I switched in a driveshaft (along with the rebuilt engine) from a '78 Alfetta GT into my '75. I installed all new donuts. The drveshaft turned out to be overall about 8 mm shorter with the transaxle pushed all the way forward. I had to shim it all the way along. I assume the new donuts are all narrower. I say this in that it would be nice to have more control over these critical items. As of now I get the feeling 'we' are supposed to be considered lucky that they are available at all.

The donuts will definitely be a, if not THE weak point. Some years ago a fellow made an all metal driveshaft for a transaxle car. It was a total failure.

Biba

[Biba69]

buzzed, I stole this photo from Stu Schaller who stole it from... In any event, this hood should work nicely with the TS. After you find one and have a mold made, do write.

Biba

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzed PSk, On the subject of intercoolers, hard to say which is better, you would have to consider cooler effieicies based on heat soak etc. On the face of it, 2 seperate coolers will give you less heat soak, but prove a pain to package...not so sure it would weigh anymore, actually for the same effieciency, it could come out on top.

[5yearplan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk Surely 2 intercoolers weigh more than 1 . My point was surely because the intake is pressurised the old head will be FORCED to flow, thus making up for some of it's VE design flaws? Pete

[gtv27]

This is an awesome project.

Following on from a suggestion above, it you had a bonnet like this you'd probably fit both front and top mount intercoolers!

You could call it a Turbodelta Evo S4 in honour of its combined alfa and lancia heritage.

[lenus]

Egad, that's a hideous bonnet.

While buzzed is making a gtv into something that will be racecar like in performance, bear in mind he is driving it on the road! So bear a thought for asthetics people!


I also think what psk is very interesting re donuts, I assume you're talking about the xr6t and xr8, I didn't think they would use rubber anywhere. This would make for a good alternative to alfa owners - and especially considering the possibility of swapping in engines from other cars (sr20's, rotarys etc) the tailshaft would need to be modded anyway!

All interesting stuff.

Can't wait to see progress pics!

[Craig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk ... so new donuts will be available. So nobody needs to make a run of these donuts ... and driveshaft modifications are dead easy

[Biba69]

gtv27, I have to agree, that is one ugly hood/bonnet. I certainly wouldn't want it on my car, if you catch my drift, buzzed.

Pete, now it's your turn. Do buy a transaxle car. Do tell me how the OZ Falcon donuts work out on it. Actually, if it has been done... ... ...Successfully... ... ...I'd sure like to know more.

This is what (I believe) is the first of the series of driveshafts for transaxle cars. They get more complicated in later series. Anyone who has or had the donuts replaced can tell you how sensitive the transaxle cars are to their being even just a hair out of balance. Alfa never shied away from making things more complicated than need be...but, tell me, what parts would you leave off?

I found this out waaaay too late, but the lock nuts have either a yellow or green plastic insert. Not sure which is which, but they're of slightly different weights. After balancing the shafts, the original installers apparently used the slightly different weights of the nuts to do the final balancing. When removing (from the very beginning) one is supposed to keep track of which nut came off each of the 18 studs.

Biba

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Umm Pete, what about the yokes either end?

[slyalfa]

Mine had the same number of each I used all of one color on say the front and all the other on the back. I had the shaft ballenced at some local place a long time ago and never had any problems after that. but I think the nuts were just a different batch. but you never want to mix and match. the weight is a lot different I think they even took the next size up wrench.

it might be the small nuts go on the 3 next to the shaft to give some more space and the bigger on the other 3. I do not rember but is seems clear how they should go when I am under the car.

as long as they are put on in even sets of 3 it should not mater. but mixing the hevey and the light on a set of 3 would be bad.

[Duk]

Wow ! So pissed I missed this thread!

Owning a factory supercharged Toyota AW11(4AGZE) that I've added a turbo to, this thread realy spiked my interest

I haven't read the whole thread, but I did spot that you have used the Toyota SC14 superchrger.
Just for the record, this supercharger (along with the smaller SC12 that I have) are rubbish compared to the Eaton 3 lobe and the Whipple Twin Screw superchargers.
The max RWKW figure that I've seen in the Toyota community using the SC14 is around the 140 mark. (Most people who are after decent power don't bother with this supercharger, twincharged or not.)

I know that Greg has pissed all over this with around the 200RWKW mark on a 3ltr V6 using an Eaton/Magnuson MP62 (1016.8cc/rev). That makes the SC14 look pretty pathetic concidering it supposedly pumps the better part of 400cc more per rev. than the (new and better) Eaton/Magnuson MP62.

1 thing to consider (sorry if it's been mentioned before) is the power it takes to drive the supercharger versus the power the supercharger adds. This is the where the SC14 (and any old supercharger) realy falls down!
This is easily shown buy the fact that there weren't many car manufacturer's using a supercharger until the much more efficient Eaton (Ford were actually good for something ), and to a lesser extent, Lysholm (twin screw) , superchargers were available.

This brings me to my second point. If you insist on using the SC14 and want to reach your target power figure, then I will make these sugestions:

1: Use a high quality tubo that will achieve your target power, but prefferably slightly higher.
2: An effective (read: low flow restiction/pressure drop) supercharger bypass would be a good idea. As will be a good supercharger clutch dis-engagement setting (boost/rev.) point. If you were using a decent supercharger (no offence, I've got a crap 1 too), then this probably wouldn't be required.
3: A high flow intercooler and a low restriction/low temperature air inlet to the turbo. Pod filters in the engine bay need not apply . A suitable exhaust and a well desingned exhaust manifold are an obvious requirement.
4: A quallity, well tuned aftermarket engine management system that can run the whole shooting match is of ut-most importance.
5: Water injection may help you to run the ignition advance you need to achieve your goals even with an intercooler.

Sorry about sounding like a keyboard expert, but after adding a turbo to my SC MR2, I was a little disappointed. I would hate to see someone do heaps more work than I did and also be pissed at the end result.

[buzzed]

WOW!

I've been away for the last four days and this thread has been a busy one, good stuff.

To set the record straight:

1. I'm using a 8v single spark /cyl engine...period, don't bother debating this anymore, it's decided ;-). The reason is I like the look of the engine, I have a lot of parts which means to change will be costly, don't bother arguing that point, it's true, I've done the sums :-p

2. 2 intercoolers don't have to be heavier for the same efficiency as a single, you can't really know one way or another until packaging restraints are taken into consideration, the design is complete, the air temps are measured etc. That said, I'm using one intercooler...there would be no point in covering my sexy cam cover with an intercooler and then putting a buldge in my bonnet (heaven forbid). It is as pointed out, a street car, and Alfa did just nicely IMO on the styling, so I don't plan basterdising it.

3.....I've run out of points :-)....Oh yeah, if anyone knows of off the shelf clutch asm's let me know, I'm yet to find one that will do the job without resorting to a custom very expensive one...ie expensive due to it being a one off.

4.... I know the SC14 has its limits. If anyone cares to back up their claims of it being sooo inefficient, please, provide the relevant graphs. I beleive, at the hea increase I plan to run, of 10psi that it will be more than satisfactory to get me started. Sure, guys out there are running the things at 15+psi....that would be stupid, its clearly not designed to be efficient at that pressure.It would make a crap load of heat at that point, and if the individuals are not using good intercoolers, then no doubt, power figures would be low.

5. Regarding any good info on drive shaft mods for longevity, the only one I know is the gtv6 shaft conversion, and this requires stretching/ cuting the tunnel...which I'm not keen to do (poor car). As for the Ford suggestion, anyone know the diameter of the donuts?? I bet they are larger than the stock Alfa ones....which would also means cutting and shutting.


I'll prob be on this forum on and off, as I am studying my masters whilst working full time...so I need to spend any small amounts of spare time in the shed :-)...As things heat up, I'll try and post some pics and updates.

Thanks for all the input, keep it coming! 2.

[Greg Gordon]

Nobody will be posting an official SC14 compressor map to prove it's inefficient because Toyota never released that data. I am really not too worried about it because at 10psi even a 10% difference in adiabatic efficiency won't stop you from getting the power you are looking for. Fiat and Lancia had great results using the ancient Volumex blower so even an obsolete blower can give great results if everthing else is up to spec. Even so, I would use an Eaton/Magnuson blower.

In addition to Performatek's clutches, I think Richard J. makes clutches.

I am worried about the driveshaft. The Alfetta's driveshaft assembly is crap compared to the GTV6 and Milano setups. It's no wonder Alfettas blow donuts easily.

Greg

P.S. Good luck on your masters.