Twin Spark Swap Owner's Satisfaction Survey

[cowfy]

you've got me thinking stefano.will the timing chain cover go on the new block?

[Seinista]

a 164 TS always has the 8V block and head, but there are older and newer types of 164 TSes, and you cannot feasibly use the newer type for into a 105 or 116. mounting points etc are different.
The 4V engines have a cast iron block. Why would you want to retrograde your alfa? It's been done here in holland but it's a beast to do as there are no mounting points for the engine mounts. Because an FWD design.
I'm waiting for the guy who will put a 1.9JTD engine in a Nuova Diesel....

[Biba69]

Stefano, I agree with you that since there is a nice Alfa engine available to put into 105's and 116's why look elsewhere? Not only does one need to totally reengineer their Alfa to take a killer engine, but is now truly an orphan - though I'm sure there are those who could care less about the latter.

Perhaps the answer to the following question might even be somewhere in this thread but what TS head did Steck use in Bonnie? If I had tons of time and money on/in my hands it would be fun to see what could be done with a killer TS in a 'GTV6' body - though still remain very streetable.

Part of the fun of this 'exercise' would be to see how close one could come - let's say to a top speed as the goal - compared to an 'ultimate' 3.6 liter V6 in a GTV6.

Just musing,

Biba

[iachella]

Biba:

I think they used a TS155 8V head on a TS75 block. A guy called alfa-of-course and I started another thread to explore the technical differences of mating the two. There are a couple of really minor things to do for that. It's a slightly better head design, but one would have to go with a full-on FI changeout - MS or GoTech, etc.

My plan is to run my TS stock until it needs a rebuild. It was an easy transplant and I'm enjoying it. At the time I need to rebuild, I would do a whole bunch of performance mods to it while it is appart, along with programmable FI. And that being the case, I might as well source a TS155 head to do it to. With all those mods I'm sure 180+ hp could be had, and I don't really need more than that. I realize that I could probably do that with the TS75 and not bother with a 155. Since I'm not there yet, I'll explore that when I get there. I'm just so intrigued about having the last Alfa head.

Now the topic of the Fiat based engine, I'm not as dissappointed as some are with the change. In Alfa terms yes, but when it comes to putting a non-Italian engine in an Italian car, I am quite disappointed. It's nice to read about all the challenges one must do, and the skill of these people that are posting their progress is top notch. It's just that if I saw the car at a car show, I would glance inside the engine bay and just walk off to the next car. That sort of makes all the effort seem futile.

So, for all that effort, I would way prefer to put that Alfa/Fiat engine in an Alfa. There would be quite some machine work to turn a FWD engine back around and mate a gearbox to it, but look at all the work that those guys are doing to put Honda and Chevy engines in.

I've dreamt of putting the FWD 4V Fiat/Alfa engine into an X1/9. That would be fun. Someone here in the Bay Area has done it with an Acura FWD engine, so it shouldn't be any harder. Putting one in a Lancia Scorpion (Montecarlo) would be awesome too.

[Squire]

If you use the Fiat twin cam 84mm block (124, 131, 132, Argenta, Spider) and corresponding Colotti or Borg Warner Fiat Gearbox and a custom driveshaft you can mate the Alfa Twin Spark head on to it as I believe you will find that bore centres and head bolt positions are the same. You would need to do some modifications to pistons, waterways, and possibly the oil feed to the VCT but none of which is a big deal really. My issue is that here in Australia a 147/156 front cut to source the parts from is ridiculously priced when you consider the real world useable horsepower and ease of fitment from a 75TS for less money.

[Seinista]

for building a cool 155 head, with a 75TS engine, I would suggest the following site someone pointed me to. Never done business with them, but it looks like quality.
www.histo-tec.de

Note the ignition!

[Biba69]

I tried both Netscape and Safari to get the English/American version at www.histo-tec.de to no avail. Friendly to Explorer only?

Biba

[iachella]

Explorer doesn't work either. I suspect they haven't created an English version yet. I could deal with a French one, but German is pretty much out, for me.

[crashmctavish]

Run the site address through altavista bable fish, it should convert it sufficiently. If not I have access to translational dictionaries.

[iachella]

Unfortunately every page except the exhaust page has its text in images, so the babelfish doesn't recognize it. You can't even select the text to copy into dictionaries since it's in image form. Type it out by hand? I don't think so.

Can anyone say if they are giving any info that we don't already know? It seems they are basically selling performance parts.

[nda9h]

Hi there,

as i´m german i can give some info about the guy who runs this company, but i´ve never had any business with him yet. Just can tell that i´ve heard from several german forum members that he´s done a lot of good work regarding car and engine setup and also good work in engine tuning.

he´s very active in a german forum forum105.de • Foren-Ãœbersicht , a forum specially for 105 alfas, don´t know if his english is good or not, but it´s worth a try.

Thomas

[fangio8c]

Who sells TS engines in the USA? Price range???

[bcal]

I wonder if a lot of the increase in torque people notice with the twin spark is to do with the EFI.

When I converted my 2.0L Nord engine from dells to EFI that was one thing I noticed along with very smooth running.

Hills that I use to have to slip into to fourth just to maintain speed I could now accelerate up in fifth. It also pulls smoothly from under 1500rpm in fourth and feels more like a smooth 6 than raucous 4.

I was going to swap to a twin spark but am wondering if after all the time and expense I would notice much of a difference.

BTW my Nord does have a ported and shaved head but that along with 105 cams is about all that has been modified internally.

[180OUT]

I

Quote:

was going to swap to a twin spark but am wondering if after all the time and expense I would notice much of a difference.

[braddo]

You can get a picture of the (big) midrange/torque advantage of the TS by having a look at dyno graphs - for the TS, go to squadra-tuning.com - this is a guy in Holland who does well regarded performance chips for Alfa engines including the 75 TS. In the section for the 75 TS you'll see (at the flywheel) dyno graphs for a standard TS and one with just the chip added. Note the shape and size of the torque curve (divide the Nm by 1.356 to get to lb/ft figures).

For the Nord, in the engine rebuilding forum you'll find a thread of various dyno runs for Nords in various states of tune. I haven't looked at it for a while but what you're likely to find is that the worked Nords have plenty of power, but their torque curves won't be close to the TS.

So, a standard TS in a 105/116 with a performance chip should be good for around 155hp/210Nm at the flywheel. Add mild cams and you might see 165-170hp. That's before doing any head work or going to carbs or throttle bodies. You'll be throwing a fair bit of money at a Nord to match that and you won't have the extra development potential.

Brad