Twin Spark Swap Owner's Satisfaction Survey

[Lou Scognamigli]

I bought 2 from Gabrielle, put 1 in my 87 Spyder (did not rebuild) love it. I have 1 for sale if anyone is interested

[sfourza]

Squire,
To find the TS motors on eBay, go to eBay Motors and search for Alfa Romeo Twin spark. I agree with Crash that these used motors don't need rebuilding unless you want the experience and have the extra cash.
Sfourza

[iachella]

That's pretty funny. Just the other day I was thinking, why do everyone here in the US call them 'cores' and say you should just rebuild them, when everyone overseas says just drop them in, they are bullet proof.

I took the advice of those that lived with the engines. I droped mine in without touching it - except for a new water pump while on the stand.

There was a thread somewhere comparing the price of one of these. Minimum numbers of $4 and $5K US were thrown around. I countered with 'what are you talking about, they are about $1200 a piece'. They (or he) said you factor in the rebuild, blah blah, etc.

That should be the exception, not the norm.

[Bruce Colby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfourza Squire, To find the TS motors on eBay, go to eBay Motors and search for Alfa Romeo Twin spark. I agree with Crash that these used motors don't need rebuilding unless you want the experience and have the extra cash. Sfourza

[Biba69]

Crash, I was somewhat kidding about your setting up a TS export biz but if you did you'd be doing a lot of folks a big favor and perhaps make a few bucks/pounds doing so.

Regarding 'our' rebuilding the TS before installing, I think perhaps there's somewhat of a kneejerk reaction to those of us in the US. The assumption being that if the engine was good it wouldn't be in a junk/salvage yard. Americans are notorious for not taking care of their cars, especially the engines (out of sight, out of mind) - though doubt if that applies to members of the ABB.

I gather the TS' are pretty bullet proof, but picking up a few 'not so perfect' engines to break for spare parts might also be a good idea. This is all assuming you have a ready source for the engines and are willing to ship anywhere. I gather the standard set-up is to put two engines on a pallet. The person on the other end either wants a spare or sells the other to help pay for his.

If my shop was considerly larger I'd be willing to be the 'West Coast' distributor.

Biba

[Capp]

I have intentionally not tabulated the cost of rebuilding my TS motor, and may never, as I don't want it to adversely affect my "ownership experience" So far I'm glad I did it, I think. It certainly has transformed the character of the acceleration curve, so to speak. As recieved, this motor was basically just used up, but was rebuildable w/ stock clearances and re-using all original major components such as crank, rods, cams, etc. It most definitely would not have been a "drop it in and run it" example-- copper showing on all big end bearings, lot's of baked on oil deposits, considerable gunk in oil passages, etc., and the mother of all stuck cyl. head problems, probably due to no/little coolant maintenance. That said, it sure is a whole lot more fun now when entering the freeway-- don't much have to pick your holes in the traffic

[crashmctavish]

Hi Biba
I wish I had the time to do an export business, If I had I would. As I said mine was bought on Ebay 55K miles apx with paperwork from the car some service records & the motor looked right. I would not buy such an item on e bay without at least this detail lots of pics etc. Sure I took a chance and maybe its got another 150K left in it or maybe just 50 k I have no idea. The motor in standard trim & FI is more than adequate for the weight of a bertone, in the rain it spins up in 3rd gear. Any more power would be a liability. Another reason for the conversion was the original motor was only good for 21MPG on leaded fuel which is now difficult to get here. The new motor is doing 38 on unleaded. If it has clean oil, good cams, compression & not been standing to long I would chance it. the worst scenario is to have to take the motor out again. I Hope this gives some of you more confidence.

[Seinista]

Well, having read only the first few posts...
I built a stock TS engine for use in my then-daily driver Berlina.
Ran it on liquid propane gas.
CSC header and 60 mm exhaust system.
Stock g-box and diff.
fresh head, new rings on used pistons.
I used the old Nord water pump an propellor, for a stock look.
Was I happy?
As a daily driver? Yes. midrange torque, easy cruising. Faster than before.
I would do 200 Kph on propane at 5700 rpm. That is REAL 200 kph, on my nav system.
Would I do it again?
NEVER.
I have another Berlina right now, running a high spec old Nord, and it is just SO much more fun. No hassle, just the sound, the looks of the double webers. the way you blip the throttle before take off.
So much more fun out of the car. With the TS it was almost like driving a modern car. So never again....
Then again, I have a '69 scalino, semi racer. This too has an old Nord 2000 engine, Squadra Bianca spec.
But for this car I will build a 75 TS engine with a 155 head, using four XR500 Keihin carbs. (honda motorcycle)
Why the carbs? I feel a 105 should run carbs. Why no Webers or Dello's?
Because the inlet manifold of a 155 is canted. So are the carbs on an XR... I wouldn't be able to get the Webers adjusted if I would have to cant them. Also I think I can get serious performance due to the 155 head, and even if I wouldn't, boy, it would look AWESOME....

[James1750]

ok parts sellls BRAND SPANKING NEW TS engines for 1950 euro less 19% tax for those outside of Europe.....

just an added option to the mix that removes any need to rebuild..... (admitedly no maifolds, wiring etc come with the engine and these would need to be sourced seperately)

[Biba69]

James, if someone has installed a TS in their car and it then develops major internal problems, a new engine might well be the way to go. However the shipping charges would be horrendous.

Seinista, why propane? You complain that the TS is too modern for your tastes, but then use a fuel it wasn't designed for. I'm not saying that using propane is a bad thing, but with the 'gas tank' required and hard line plumbing, it does seem to take away from the Alfa experience. It does sound as if you actually do like the TS, but only on your terms.

Biba

[Seinista]

biba,
Why propane?
Actually, in europe , mainly holland and italy, this is pretty normal.
as for holland: Compare!
Road tax for a car on propane, weighing in at 1200 kilos: about 70 euro a month (100 dollars US) Road tax on a gasoline engined car of 1200 kilo ; about 40 a month. BUT!!!
a classic car over 25 years pays NO road tax.
and now it comes: Propane: 50 eurocent a litre. Gasoline, 95 ron:1.47 euro per litre................ Get the idea? (serious, a litre of 95 costs about 2 dollars US here...)
As for propane:Alfa's have hardened valve seats and they run fantastic on the stuff. you adjust the ignition and it will even run better. You have an alternative fuel system, and your radius of action increases hugely. 55 litres of gasoline and 60 of propane....
So not MY terms... my WALLETs.......

[rafael]

So you must be at least doing 20000km a year in your car, right?

[Seinista]

rafael, I did 70000 km in three years with it. But even if I did 5000 I would preferably run propane. Dirt cheap to install, and even cheaper to run.
Guys, a good friend has a NEW TS engine lying around, 1200 euro's, here in holland. Contact Marco Van Doorn, mail: mavado70@hotmail.com.
He is a true Alfista, can be trusted, and knows how to ship etc.
Good luck!
Pfhew, I read the entire topic, and had to wrestle thru a lot of pffffffff...
I would like an engine such as Max has, but : no budget.
TS scrapheap engines do about 250 euro complete here.
But you have to factor in the need of also having a Nord 2000 engine, for oil pump, flywheel (getting rare and expensive!!!) front engine cover etc.... And 2000 engines are getting to be around 600 euro for a scrapheap engine. (meaning you mght be lucky getting an average engine, or you might be in the sh*t with junk. Which don't matter 'cause you'll still have your flywheel etc... and revisioning an average Nord or grotty nord doesn't matter much in terms of price)
All this meaning, for me: I'd rather just DRIVE the thing 'stead of spending hours in the shop getting a TS built...... and have some cash left!

[iachella]

I kept the TS flywheel, oil pump and front engine cover. They are just fine.

[crashmctavish]

I kept the TS flywheel, oil pump and front engine cover. They are just fine.

In a bertone they are not as the sump needs to be changed & the original oil pump suction is not long enough to reach the oil!!!!
Im sure most would spot this I just did not want anyone making a faux pas!