Twin Spark Swap Owner's Satisfaction Survey

[Insoc]

Here are some links, but I am sure you already know about them. If not I do hope they are helpful. What I do not understand, is Jim Steck mentions you specifically on his webpage, so you MUST know about him and his work with the TS engine, Supercharging and such. Otherwise I don't know what else to say.

This link has you mentioned towards the bottom.

http://www.autocomponenti.com/new.htm The link is to your email address: acs@alfacybersite.com

Which is verified as you here: 63 Guilia Spider restoration

This link has a pretty comprehensive list of details of installing a TS engine.

http://www.alfacentro.com/features/twinspark/index.html

This one has some surface info

http://sfaroc.tripod.com/archives/id35.html

Here is a list of necessary items needed for a conversion. Some of this will be different for an Alfetta I imagine.

http://www.autocomponenti.com/twinsp...pping_list.htm

EBSpares and Alfaholics have many if not all the parts needed for a swap.

http://www.ebspares.co.uk/new21.htm

http://www.alfaholics.com/racing_and..._engine_parts/

There is more out there and in here, in any case good luck!

[iachella]

Hey Biba:

The Alfetta pulls very nicely through the whole range. Yes, I'd do it again. You are familiar with my issues from other posts. I have some pictures to update my hood clearance problem post soon. My body shop essentially cut off the mounting point to the hood stay catch and flipped it upside down and rewelded it. It is now recessed and he says the hood closes now no problems. We have also removed the torsion spring and I'll be lifting the hood up with my Alfa-male strength. I'm also hoping that the body vibrations I'm feeling are the engine shaking the hood transmitting through the body. I'm looking for a smoother feel when I get it back from the body shop.

There is one thing that is disappointing me, though. As I rev up the engine and let out the clutch to pull away, the response is very strange and I haven't gotten used to it. It seems to rev so quickly when not loaded, that I can't seem to make it catch and pull away smoothly. I sometimes almost stall the the car, or as it is catching, it revs up too quickly and burns the clutch. I feel like an idiot teenage who can't get a clutch right. Maybe that's how VVT system behaves and I just need more time to get used to it?? I'd driven it around for over 2 months straight after I got a good fuel pump in and that wasn't enough to get completely used to it. It's been in the body shop for a week or so and I've been driving the 74 GTV with the Norman head and Ingram euro cam, and while not more powerful, the launch is so linear that I felt so comfortable, like putting on an old glove.

I never updated any post about the fuel pump, and I should look for that to keep things straight and where they belong to help people searching (I don't think a little overlap is bad, but I do think a purposeful thread should be kept up to date) but I ended up just using one fuel pump. It has been said to get the intank pump and an inline pump. The Alfetta tank feeds from the bottom, so I didn't think it was all that critical to leave off the in-tank pump, since the reason seemed to be delivering the fuel to the in-line pump. I put in an MSD #2225 pump capable of 40-45 psi and I haven't had any problems. I've even run very low in fuel and then did a couple of high rev pulls on a long hill with no problems.

If I ever have to rebuild the thing, I will do some of the tricks to it. Maybe a different piston, and valves, and certainly different cams and then change out the stock injection for something that can take advantage of those changes. No need to make the plans yet, there may be more information available when that happens. I'll just do the research when the time comes. I will probably source a TS155 8V head while I wait and use that instead.

[sfourza]

Stefano,
I don't have your previous post immediately to hand, but what head are you currently using on your TS, and what would be the advantage of a 155 head? Did that head come with more than 8 valves?
Sfourza

[iachella]

I just have the standard 75TS engine. The first generation 155 with 8 valves on the FWD engine block fits on the 75TS block. It has an improved port geometry and possibly some other improvements. They later switched to a FWD 16v engine which is totally different and of no use in this discussion. There are a few threads on using the 155 8V head. The upper distributor is on the back of the head when installed longitudinally, so that has to be removed and addressed. A couple more things need to be addressed, but essentially it is the last and best head to use on this swap.

[nzkiwiguy]

Great discussion, great tips, and the enthusiasm everyone has.

My question is this:

Most people seem to agree that the TS is a good option, and most run the carb setup and like the feel of it for "the road"

But what is the road in most peoples case? Is this "their stop and go in traffic to get to work" road, or the "saturday blast around the hills with the radio turned off and window down" road?

May seem a strange question but the charactistics everyone talks about are always aimed at the "fast" side of the road.

what is the best set-up for the everyday side of driving.

[Insoc]

If you stay stock (motronic), the engine runs great for ANY street use. I have never heard anyone complain about this engine's ability to produce reliable power.

The reason why FAST is used with this engine, is it produces more power then the Nord engine, so it is faster.

When you go outside the stock Motronic setup, then everything depends on you.

Basically, stock is all around great. Modified is what you make it.

[180OUT]

Quote:

Most people seem to agree that the TS is a good option, and most run the carb setup and like the feel of it for "the road" But what is the road in most peoples case? Is this "their stop and go in traffic to get to work" road, or the "saturday blast around the hills with the radio turned off and window down" road? May seem a strange question but the charactistics everyone talks about are always aimed at the "fast" side of the road. what is the best set-up for the everyday side of driving.

[Insoc]

The point is price.

You can get a whole TS engine with all the Motronic gear (at least in Europe anyways, where this modification is more popular and available) for a lot less then modifing a 2L to similar specs, or even a stock 2L engine. This does not normally apply to us in the USA since the TS engine is not available here.

The sucess of this engine in Europe has been heard here, and those that have done the transplant (stock) report increased performance over their old Nord engine.

It is understood that when you modify a 2L to produce more HP it starts to lose some low end driveability, something you don't lose from a stock TS.

Also, when you think of the costs to produce say a 160+HP Nord engine, and put that cost instead into a TS, you get much more, since the Head is such a superior design in efficiency.

Just 2 cents, I have a TS engine in storage with the intent to transplant, but I have not done any work yet, so this make my above statements open to debate. However I feel these facts stand on their own.

[hughqv]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iachella There is one thing that is disappointing me, though. As I rev up the engine and let out the clutch to pull away, the response is very strange and I haven't gotten used to it. It seems to rev so quickly when not loaded, that I can't seem to make it catch and pull away smoothly. I sometimes almost stall the the car, or as it is catching, it revs up too quickly and burns the clutch. I feel like an idiot teenage who can't get a clutch right. Maybe that's how VVT system behaves and I just need more time to get used to it?? I'd driven it around for over 2 months straight after I got a good fuel pump in and that wasn't enough to get completely used to it. It's been in the body shop for a week or so and I've been driving the 74 GTV with the Norman head and Ingram euro cam, and while not more powerful, the launch is so linear that I felt so comfortable, like putting on an old glove.

[nzkiwiguy]

Quote:

However, if like me, you can use/build a modified 2L (in my case, high compression, ported head, big valves, cams, ignition, balanced, etc.) then the difference between the old style Alfa motor and the TS isn't that great. The differences are so small, relatively speaking, that I can't see the utility in going to the trouble to make the change.

the 155 head will NOT bolt onto a 75 TS block and front cover, placement of hole on exhaust side for bolt thru front cover into head is not the same.

[Max Banks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpv Does it do 7200rpm realiably? My nord lost its head gasket when I got it to 7500rpm... Great post! keep the info coming!! best regards

[iachella]

Hugh:

I don't think my TS takes too long to drop it's revs, although I'll check that more closely when I get it back from getting the hood modified. The accelleration curve unloaded is just very steep and I have a hard time finding where to engage the clutch. I'll play with a little more when it comes back and try to define the bahavior a bit better.

Concerning the 8V chain driven TS155 head. I don't have one, nor have I examined one, but Glenn Oliveria has one of each in his shop I can compare someday. I have read on this BB sometime ago that it will bolt right up to the TS75 block. No one ever mentioned any differences. I would certainly analyze this in detail before I bought one. My plan is to one day, so I will double check, for sure.

Re-reading this post several times paying attention to Biba and alfa of-course, it seems that the no-name alfa of-course is Jim Steck. Does anyone read that? Am I mis-understanding the hard-to-follow ramblings? Did Spider-man slip up?

[Max Banks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iachella Hugh: I don't think my TS takes too long to drop it's revs, although I'll check that more closely when I get it back from getting the hood modified. The accelleration curve unloaded is just very steep and I have a hard time finding where to engage the clutch. I'll play with a little more when it comes back and try to define the bahavior a bit better. Concerning the 8V chain driven TS155 head. I don't have one, nor have I examined one, but Glenn Oliveria has one of each in his shop I can compare someday. I have read on this BB sometime ago that it will bolt right up to the TS75 block. No one ever mentioned any differences. I would certainly analyze this in detail before I bought one. My plan is to one day, so I will double check, for sure. Re-reading this post several times paying attention to Biba and alfa of-course, it seems that the no-name alfa of-course is Jim Steck. Does anyone read that? Am I mis-understanding the hard-to-follow ramblings? Did Spider-man slip up?

Max, sorry but I dont understand the reference to the math, power to weight means more than total HP, I tend to stay away from dicussions of performance as in the past my comparing the perfomance of a ts 105 as being equal to or better than some newer cars such as WRX's has been scoffed at. I am not questioning your figures or claims, and I have no trouble beleiving them. If you thought I was questioning your numbers you misunderstood.
There are not a lot of people interested in paying for the extra expense of a boosted TS, and it seems odd to me that this shopping list and A-Z instructions would be of more interest than the same info which is common to all TS conversions regardless of ignition or induction choices, What does it really cost to put a long block together? New pistons and liners? I think a shopping list and A-Z instructions for this basic long block would be of more interest.
The whole subject of bringing the brakes, chassis, and driveshaft up to snuff, should also be of more interest than a cost no object motor. Front brake conversion, loose the 4.56 rear, replace all drivetrain and rear axle bushings, and replace drivshaft joints with new or upgraded units, like the metal replacement for the front flex joint now for sale, which I have yet to use, but will. I recommend that any builder/owner or buyer plan ahead on putting the car up on jack stands, and R & R from the frt suspension thru the rear, and as I have stated in other posts, TS conversions are expensive, and bringing the rest of the car up to snuff is part of the cost.
If you detected some sarcasim in my comments about TS performance, it was meant for that group that has in the past scoffed at my claims and now wants details on how to achive that performance. I only work for myself and a few other people, I have all the work I need, sales are thru a newsletter, and I do not appreciate my contact info being given out without regards to my request that this info not be given out, I have turned down many TS related and UNSOLICITED requests since someone went fishing. I don't have time.
I accept, and made it clear in the past, that Vendor A can pick and choose customers when demand exceeds supply, but that potential buyers should know about the delay. well demand still does exceed supply for some parts and work, I choose not to advertise. I don't like being contacted by people who won't take a polite no for an answer, I don't like receiving offers south of absurd for truck loads of NOS parts by Alfa owners who maintain they are doing me a favor helping me get rid of this stuff in short order. I have enough time to disposs of this stuff, I just don't have time to do anything for people whose business I did not solict. And I was not willing to wait as each day more people got my info and another engine builder got closer, item by item, to outright asking for info that he already knew he wasn't going to get. I would not have entered this dicussion, had someone put so much effort into forcing it. So here goes.
for the owner builder that needs info on supercharged TS motors with state of the art engine mods and the chassis and brake and drivetrain upgrade, check the BB for all but the Supercharging, check the World Wide Web, for that info, somwhere somebody is doing or has done a project using the same aftermarket unit combos, you are thinking of, check the VW and BMW SC sites for the hi-tech DIY conversions, it is all adaptable to Alfa TS, and check Msierts Spider for info on TB injection and distriburtorless ignition. Just add 4 more coil units and make the required changes.
for this system, Buy a New MB SLK supercharger and entire system upstream of supercharger $?, do not buy used, learn everything about this system you can, MB tech info is not cheap, most ebay software programs will not load. buy entire ignition and fuel injection and ecu $? learn everything about this you can. do the head work, balance everything in the motor, lighten NOTHING! tune for a broad power band rather than top HP, which means you just spent a bundle of cash on a motor that doesn't make ultimate HP, then you have to spend $3-4000 to bring the car up to snuff. Notice the question marks, $10-15000 total to do the car, if you do the work yourself. of course you own and can use, a milling machine, lathe, and various welders, so brackets and custom intake and exhaust units are no problem. plus all the regular shop tools, and you have a good understanding of all the mechanical and electrical components you will be working with. And keep in mind that the kit car industry can provide you with among other things, custom width ford 8.8' rear axles, choice of ratio and posi-traction. for less than most suppliers will sell you an Auto spider rear axle. My advice, buy a 308
As far as buying a motor, from basic black long block on up, sorry NO, not taking orders. When this thread was started, so was the thread $6000 engine rebuild, not sure what is with the motor in question. but the general observations and opinions being expressed, well, The buyer doesn't want to pay the asking price, and I don't want to provide the buyer with a warranty, nobody builds a fool proof motor. why does this community want the advice of a group they think so little of?
In the past I have been keeping my post to subjects like the Schely valve spring compressor thread. I have 2 TS heads in right now, 1 75 and 1 155, was taking photos of both, clearly showing the differences, some of which have not been discussed. I would like to be involved only in those kinds of threads. This thread was, by virtue of the motives for it being posted, B S.! I will add whatever is asked to the TS dicussion for the benefit of the builder/owner, something this thread was never about. I will not give an A-Z list to another builder. I resent the methods and actions this builder used.
I don't know why you assumed that the math issue was a criticism of your post, and I do not like the assumption that I build drag racers, all power and no stopping and handling improvements. But I doubt you will reconsider any of your positions. Including your opinion of the other builder involved in this post.