Montreal V8 into a 105

[GTAM1]

Has anyone heard of this conversion being done? Is it possible?

[Tater]

Yes it has been done. Leon Greff of New Orleans had a Montreal V8 in a GTA racecar back in the seventies. It was a thing of beauty.

[GTV-GR]

Well...got to know more about that v8 105 might be the coolest mod heard so far , did the engine bolted straight on the gearbox??
Screw Turbos , 2.0 liters (can't believe i said that), Compressors, THAT mod if possible is the meanest, I beg of you anyone with photos of such a beast please post them.

[Alleggerita]

There have been a number of conversions like that. Auto Neusser (?) in Germany did a 105 Kamm tail spider witha Montreal motor that was turbocharged to boot (I have some paper photos somewhere...). ARI in North America did a Montreal motor in either a GTV or GTA chassis (I'm not sure right now) to use for drag racing I believe. Alec Mildren in Australia ran a Montreal/tipo33 in a GTA for racing.

[streetfame]

that conversion would be the nastiest s#*t around!!!!!!!! i'm finding it hard to believe it would even fit!! plus, i can't even imagine what it would cost to do something like that.

at the present time i've had to focus so much on work just to come up with the funds to do my own engine swap and resto on my spider. labour hours and rates are a killer. 600+ alone just on that!!! plus parts!!! i almost had a heart attack when my mechanic told me the final #'s. at the same time cost will most likely rise as project develops.

this was the only link i found on a spider haveing a v8 in it. it's not very detailed but it's something. keep us informed of your progress.

http://www.international-auto.com/in...?fa=ad&aid=257

streetfame

[GTV-GR]

Gtam1 has started a rather interesting thread here...
Tater after doing some search i found leon's website run by his son Randy, unfortunately Leon has passed on, seems that this rather skilled mechanic (used to work on jets) had that beast used for drag racing as Randy told me , and even promised some photos of the car
For those of you not following , this is not the rather used v6 conversion , we 're talking V8 here.... big boys lair
Just imagine that thing running on Carbs , 4 Webers that is...
Consider the sound of your 2liter's 2 webers and then....
Think what THAT would sound like with ram pipes
I'm thinking that the most difficult part of this adventure would be sourcing the engine out, and i would guess it would be rather heavy on the pocket.
Then of course it's the rebuild followed by modifications for the fitting.
Start saving


P.S. Think Big

[Vivace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleggerita There have been a number of conversions like that. Auto Neusser (?) in Germany did a 105 Kamm tail spider witha Montreal motor that was turbocharged to boot (I have some paper photos somewhere...). ARI in North America did a Montreal motor in either a GTV or GTA chassis (I'm not sure right now) to use for drag racing I believe. Alec Mildren in Australia ran a Montreal/tipo33 in a GTA for racing.

[turbolarespider]

There's a picture from the article I have over on this thread

1/4 mile Alfa Romeo

[lgowin]

I seem to remember seeing a 105 with a Montreal V8 in Paul Glynn's shop (http://www.glynnmotorsports.com/), north of Boston a number of years ago. I don't remember what was required to make it fit. This car was overshadowed by some other pretty impressive cars. I would bet a 3 liter V6 conversion would be both cheaper and more powerful.

Regards,
Lawrence

[Alleggerita]

Here's some B&W pics from the Neuser V8 turbo spider. Color photographs later if I find them

[OldAlfaGuy]

Leon Greff of Metaire, Louisiana (a suberb of New Orleans) built a GTV-based dragster with much support from Alfa Romeo, USA. He had an import repair shop and was briefly an Alfa Romeo franchised dealer. As an import drag car fan, he talked Alfa into helping him build a dragster.

First, he tried a Montreal "marine spec" engine that Alfa Romeo USA loaned him. But he said it would not "pull a greased string out of a cat's _ _s." So they took the Montreal motor back and sent him a 2.5 liter Tasman V8 motor that they had laying around. They had it back after loaning it to Horst Kwech who tried to compete with it in the old Formula 5000 series (that series called for 5 liter stock block, or 3 liter race engine design. Horst was not competitive. I forget what formula car chassis he put the Tasman motor in. I heard that he had fuel delivery problems that he never really solved.) But it had Lucas slide throttle injection, dual Bosch ignition, gear driven cams, etc. Neat motor.

Anyway, Leon used a step nose GTV chassis, but since he had to run in one of the Gas classes, he took advantage of the liberal rules for the class and butchered the car to try to make it competitive. Solid front axle, Ford 9 inch rear, Borg Warner Super T-10S four speed, seriously gutted. He finally got it to run in the high 10's in the quarter mile. But the class record was way into the nines.

Back about 1979, after he had given up on the project, I heard about the car, and on a trip to New Orleans, I stopped by to see it and talk to Leon. He wanted $3,500 as I recall. That is when I got all of the above information - direct from Leon. When I was there, Leon said the motor would not start, so I passed on it. Leon went on to (or back to) drag racing Porsches. He said you could tweak a turbo Porsche to get it into the low nines in the 1/4 mile with no sweat. He said trying to get the Montreal motor, and then the Tasman motor, to run right was tough.

I never forgot about the Alfa dragster. Then 5-6 years later, I called Leon to see if he still had the car. He said he had sold the Tasman motor, and that a friend had put a small block Chevy in the car. I bought it over the phone - less the Chevy motor (and I honestly don't remember how much - I think it was the same $3,500 figure). I went and got the car and had visions of restoring it with a Montreal motor. In fact, I bought a freshly-rebuilt Montreal V8 from a guy who was going to make a can-am type car with it but chickened out; and I got a Montreal ZF gearbox from Matt who now owns Re-Originals, Inc. My plan was to have a chassis/suspension guy install the engine and gearbox, and take out the solid front axle and fabricate an independant double wishbone setup.

The car, Montreal motor and gearbox sat at the chassis guy's shop for months. I got impatient, listed it in the Alfa Owner magazine, and sold it to John Murphy, who lived in Atlanta and had a great collection of Alfa's. Several GTA's and tons of GTA parts, a couple of Montreals, etc.

John Murphy passed away before doing anything with the drag car and drive train. It was in his estate, which was liquidated. Leon Greff also passed away about that same time.

Oh, and about that Tasman motor ithat was in the car when I first went to look at it - later I heard that a guy in San Francisco bought it and when he opened it up, it was junk inside. A rod had let go, damaging the crank, block, heads, etc.

But it would have made one dynamite street rod, even with only the Montreal motor. On the other hand, I sold it to John Murphy for what I had in it - car, engine and gearbox. I am probably lucky in that regard. It could have ended up being one of the biggest Alfa money pits of all time!

[Azzurri GTV]

It is a cool mod but why do it?? The Montreal 8 cylinder engine is a iron block and iron head. You can probably install a 2.5liter milano engine that has a Aluminum block and head and can produce about the same power but will be lighter. Just my opinion i guess.

[papajam]

Slight correction; the Monty block and heads are aluminum alloy just like the 105/115 L4 engines.

[Vivace]

Yes. Check out this site...
http://www.alfamontreal.info/

Go down the index to Engine, 3-liter Engine, Montreal (Alfetta) GTV, and Marine Montreal.

This is where I found some of the chassis drawings some time ago. It seems like the motor mounts would be similar to the 105. The cross memeber is the same I think. Is a Montreal slightly wider? I remember some discussion here about the rear end and overall axle width.

[GTAM1]

Wow! I didnt think this thread would generate such interest. The idea has been in my head for a while as i've always been keen on a small capacity high revving v8 in my 105. Why? Why not!
Anyway, I know of the Alec Mildren V8 GTA that raced here in Australia in the 70s but information about this vehicle is very scarce. I do know the vehicle is currently being restored (back to its original gta spec) so i hope to catch up with its owner to discuss further.
Vivace - Thanks for the alfamontreal site i haven't had a chance to read it in much detail but it appears to provide answers to many of my questions.
When I read that the Montreal is 'based' on the 105 1750 chassis i wonder just how much different/similar the chassis is? My guess would be the width. Does anyone know this off hand? If not, i won't be such a slack a** and start reading up on the specs.

Appreciate everyones feedback and any future comments are always welcome.