GTV-S2000 (warning not for the Alfa purist)

[Keven]

Some progress... I finally got the clutch master cylinder in
along with an Earls stainless flex line to the stock S2000
slave. Had to shorten the masters push rod, and thread
more of it to allow for the proper pedal stroke. Made a
custom bracket to hold the steel line to flex line adaptor.
IT all fits in there very nicely.

I also had a chance to try and fit the stock radiator into
the engine bay with the S2000 electric fan I have. I will
solder on some brackets to the radiator to hold the fan on.
I plan on having the radiator re-cored with a heavy duty
core. I think this will be adequate cooling? I tried looking for
an online calculator for figuring the proper radiator size for a
given engine size/HP rating. Anyone have a link??

It is a very tight fit, but there will be better clearance once
I move the inlet and outlet over to the driver side. I think
this will allow the use of the stock S2000 hoses, which happen
to be the same size as stock Alfa hose. Also the engine will
use the stock S2000 front rubber stop/bumper, which I hope
will protect the radiator and fan assembly.

As always comments/suggestions welcome...

[sh0rtlife]

nice work

where did you get these?....ive NEVER seen a cleaner brake/fuel line clamp

[Keven]

The clamps are made by a company called: Made4You
and Summit Racing carries them, as well as Jegs I think.

[GTV-GR]

get an alloy radiator kev the old one looks crappy

[DaveH]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTV-GR get an alloy radiator kev the old one looks crappy

[Keven]

Yes, I agree the radiator looks like crrraaappp
But it is being rebuilt as I type with a three row high efficiency
core. The outlets are being moved to the driver side with
45deg bends to ease hose installation. It is also having the
S2000 fan attach points brazed on, as well as the S2000
fan switch bung. The reason I am sticking to a brass/copper
radiator, is that I have had very good results with my other
cars using high effciency cores, as well as them lasting over
20 years without leaks or problems. The Alfa Tomato will be
a driver, with some limited track time, so I want durability/reliability.

While I am waiting for the radiator to come back, I have decided
to start working on the gas tank. The tank I have is (yes, you
guessed it!) from an S2000 as well. I am modifying it to sit over
the axle in the rear most for safety, and better weight distribution.
I think that the cut out will remove about 5 gallons, still leaving
me about 11 galons of fuel. I will add bungs on the bottom of
the tank to bolt it from the bottom, as well as a strap to hold it.
The fuel pump is stock S2000, and I am debating as to the use
of a single braided flex line to the engine bay, or use short braided
lines to a couple of aluminum hard lines. Any advice on this?
Should the lines be run under the car or inside the cabin? Which
is safer?

Some pics for your enjoyment...

[sh0rtlife]

theres been ALOT of argements on just about any and every board out there on where to run fuel line...fuel line is a potential fire hazzard no matter where its ran....IMO the SAFEST place to run it is inside the car anywhere halfway from the doors to the driveshaft tunnel..as it takes a MONSTER hit to impact it in there..

as for lines 1 long braided stainless is nice as long as weight isnt a concern..but then theres always the potential rot out in any random location.....aluminum or steel tubeing with braided ends is ALWAYS the better choice IMO cause then you only have 2 small sections with the posibility of problems......"idealy" i would flair the 2 ends of the tube and have fittings on them..1 end on a fuel filter in the engine bay and then to a flex line and the other end with a junction block neer the fuel tank with the block bolted to the car and then a flex line from it to the tank...this would give you the ability to check for problems..and a solidly mounted point to attatch flex lines to is less likely to ever get bent..aspecialy when useing aluminum fuel line

[5yearplan]

I agree. BTW shoftlife: I PM'ed you, did you ever get that trunk lock?

[sh0rtlife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5yearplan I agree. BTW shoftlife: I PM'ed you, did you ever get that trunk lock?

[Keven]

Shortlife,

Thanks for the reply, and good advice. I have noticed at the junk
yard that the Hondas do have the fuel lines in the cabin with a
aluminum shrowd over them. I also noticed that most cars use
auminum fuel lines. Is this only to conserve weight? I know that
for aluminum radiators, that one must be very careful to keep the
radiator isolated from ground so that a voltage cannot develop
between the radiator and ground, and thus cause a galvanic
action that will rot the radiator (same applies to brass ones,but
I heard that the effect isn't as drastic). But the fuel tank is typically
grounded to the chassis. Why?

One last question what type of fittings are used for fuel? The brake
lines I made used inverted flares. Can I do the same with the aluminum
tube? Or do I use tube nuts and sleeves(pic below), how do these work?
I am mainly concerned about the high pressure side. For the return line
I can use normal hose clamps and bead the tube using earls tube beadeder
(pic below) Also what size tube (3/8, 5/16,1/2, 5/8)?

[5yearplan]

I've heard that the fuel tank is grounded to the chassis for two reasons, first: the fuel pump is sometimes grounded to the tank. Second: so it is less likely to rust. Generally, speaking as long as there is some current running through a conductor, it is kept statically charged, and the iron,hydrogen,oxygen molecules are less likely to bond to the metal.

[sh0rtlife]

LOL actualy the fuel tank is grounded for 1 single reason...fuel level sender..no ground=no signal



personaly i flair the aluminum tune ends and run normal earls fitting or brass(think large scale brake lines) brass is cheeper and generaly in stock around here..where earls must generaly be special ordered

as for tube size..generaly speaking unless your running a big block, or a hemi then anything larger than 5/16's is overkill..personaly i prefer to run 5/16 or 1/2 on race engines...reserving the 5/8s for bigblock stuff........theres 2 things to think about when running fuel line from scratch..give yourself a U dip just befor your fuel pump so that it will be pre-primed at most times...and run another U dip at the filter again it will help with pre-priming and make the car much easyer to start.....

i think the milano used 3/8 PLASTIC lines on the inside of the car

nice thing about aluminum tubeing is you realy dont need a bender unless your makeing VERY tight corners

[rogerspeed]

Kevin, your project is a really coming along well, you should be proud. I think the aluminum fuel lines under the car are either an anti-rust deal or like we do it because we can; of course as you mention there are other corrossion problems. I wonder if the aluminum lines are isolated from the body with spacer/mounts like the steel fuel lines on the SPICA equiped ALFA's. Putting the fuel lines in the car creates it own set of problems. I've had VW's with steel brakelines in the car rust and leak! Plastic or rubber fuel lines in the car can crack or leak and even with metal, god forbid an accident, somehow gas leaks in the cabin. I'd put them under the car; in the long run it's how fancy do you want to get, how much do you want to spend, any system will eventually wear out, one way or another. In addition to all the other good reasons for the fuel tank to be grounded, a grounded fuel tank shouldn't be subject to a subject to a static electricity build-up as an undergrounded tank might be.

[sh0rtlife]

i should have mentiond this..aluminum lines need to be very well mounted and PROTECTED..aluminum is thin and soft.. a stray rock on the track or piece of rubber on the freeway may end your driveing day with pinching the line...also aluminum needs to be mounted in such a way that it will NEVER get rubbed at, or move around on its own as it will fail ...any points it goes thru a metal area should be drilled out to a minimum of double the size of the tubeing..the tubeing where it goes thru the hole should have apiece of rubber fuel line slit and wraped over/around it acting as a protective rubber sleeve and all this should feed thru a rubber gromet

if you want the alminum to stay clean...clearcoat it with engine clearcoat..it will not corode on the outside...the inside shouldnt corode much anyway

[Keven]

Thanks for all the ideas/advice. I will do a little more web surfing
as well as talk to the guys down at Earls Supply in Hawthorne,
and decide on the fuel lines.

The S2000 tank has the fuel inlet on the passenger side, so I will
have to mount the gas funnel and cap on the passenger side.
Here are a few pics of the hole I punched out with my huge
knock out punch (2"), then I am using a really nice aluminum
funnel and cap made in the UK by MOCAL. The quality is superb!
The cap is a monza style. Here's a few pics: