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post #1 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Gtv-ts

Hello everyone! There is no turning back now!!



I was looking to restart a failed restoration but found that the motor had not been gone through by the PO. Meanwhile my brother and I have had a pair a TS motors sitting in the warehouse for about ten years now. We got them through ebay in the hopes of putting one in our spider. I figured if I am going to rebuild a motor for the GTV might as well be a TS. So here I go.

I am not going for the 198hp motor but I am going to do as much as I can right now.

From Alfaholics:
-full under axle exhaust
-3D Ignition
-Intake manifold
Thanks Max!

From Spruell Motorsports
-New Sachs Clutch
-Rebuilt transmission
-Complete engine seals and gaskets
-New valves (the old ones were shot )
-New Guides
-New springs
-All new bearings
Thanks Charlie!

From Centerline
-New water pump
-New rings
-And most important new Quatrofolio Stickers

I just dropped of the motor at a local machine shop, John Cage's, that has been around for ages and has a good reputation for their race motor work. They are going to check the heads, inspect all the tolerances, balance the crank....

I am really looking forward to this little project.

Miguel
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post #2 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 10:56 AM
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Looks like a well planed conversion . What are you going to use for the carbs ?


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[SIZE="2"]David Munro[/SIZE]
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1969 Spider JR Twin Spark
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post #3 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 11:06 AM
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Miguel, it will be a nice long term Christmas present for your GTV. What year is the car?

I'll be very interested as to what tweaks you will be using/adding to bump the HP up...a 'bit'.

Are you going to stick with the Motronic?

Biba
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post #4 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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I have a used set of 40's that I got from the forum not long ago. Max from Alfaholics seemed to think that without going to resized valves, pistons, or a cam change the 40's are the appropriate carbs.

Maybe in the future if I go for more power I will swap out to 45's but for now 40's will do.

Miguel
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post #5 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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At least for the moment I am not seeking a race motor's output nor am I going for fuel efficiency nor am I shooting for a precise restoration. I am looking to make a quick, reliable, ascetically pleasing daily driver.

The factory FI would work against point number three. I like the clean look of carbs; really the least stuff in the engine compartment the better.

As far as tweaks its just the stuff I mentioned in the first post. Carbs, full exhaust with under axle upgrade, 3D mapping, and maybe a little porting and polishing at the machine shop (matching the intake manifold and exhaust to the head). Once the car is dialed in I will look to put it on the dyno and report back what this level of tuning gets.

The body and drive train is a 74 though I will be putting on a 1750 grill. I like the look of the earlier noses. Being as the car/motor is not correct and I do not intend to sell I am not particularly worried about correctness.

Regards,

Miguel
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post #6 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 11:15 AM
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Miguel, in my case I'm fully expecting to keep the Motronic. I fully agree with keeping the engine bay limited to just what is absolutely necessary is a nice thought. I not only don't want to pay for an aftermarket EFI system, don't want an engine bay filled with wires which are difficult to make neat and tidy, and I want as close to bullet proof a system as possible. Unlike the L-Jetronic, from what I read the Motronic is very reliable. Meaning I'm willing to live with a pretty packed engine bay for the benefits of EFI.

Why anyone gets a TS then uses carbs is beyond me - unless you get 45's then go balls out on engine mods. You still have to install a throttle position sensor, among other things, so you'll still require a control uniit of sorts.

I have 40's in my Alfetta GT and like their simplicity, but the atomiziation of carbs to EFI is like night and day.

I have an email into Wes Ingram who apparently has or is working on an inlet cam which will retain the vairable cam timing. This is important to me since I'll have A/C and want the engine to speed up 500 rpm at idle when the compressor is on. If he can supply one and along with higher compresson (10.2:1?) pistons, and perhaps a reburned chip, that will be it. Except for details like balancing the reciprocating parts and indexing the rods.

Biba
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post #7 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 11:21 AM
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Interesting project.


Bob,
Director BC Chapter SNO.
Avatar is the 69 Super, bought new.
Current Ride: 67 Super, bought in 2013: Red/Black, "Tuned" 2 L.
Daily drivers, beginning in 1965: 750 Spider, Giulia Spider, 105 Sprint GT, 101 Sprint, 69 Super, 79 Alfetta Sedan. Collectors beginning in 2006: 101 Spider, 101 Sprint. Both sold.
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post #8 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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6 to 1 I got the intake manifold and the 3D ignition kit from Alfaholics the throttle position data point is taken care of. The electronics will get mounted inside the car so its well clear of any weather conditions and out of sight.

If I kept the factory EFI then I would have to deal with a bunch of bulky, heavy, ugly, non-60/70's looking stuff in the engine bay. To each his own.

Miguel
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post #9 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 04:17 PM
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great project,
if i were you i would also keep the carbies
along witht he alfaholics 3D ignition kit should make for a pretty smooth reving engine. and the sound of carbies is unbeatable.
are u going to use an alfaholics intake manifold aswell?? if you can do a bit of fabrication work, just make some alloy flanges to suit the carbies and have them welded onto the standard ts manifold and block of the injectors, will save u paying the very high price for the custom reproduction manifold!
cheers, Brad

79 GTV Sr20-Track/Drift ~ 83 GTV6 3ltr 24v-Street ~ 83 GTV-Street ~ 76 GT,75TS x 3,164,85 GTV,S13 silvia-Parts cars ~ VT SS Ls1 6spd-Track ~ e30 318i 2dr-Daily
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post #10 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 06:06 PM
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When I first put my TS in my Spider I used Weber DCOE 40s and I was blown away by how much more power I had . Then I put in 45s and... I was blown away again. I never put the car on the dyno back in the carb days but the gain from 40s to 45s was very noticeable.

I would highly recommend putting an O2 sensor and gauge in. I am using one from Innovate motorsports

You can also get ones that go in the tail pipe just when you want to do tuning .


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[SIZE="2"]David Munro[/SIZE]
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1969 Spider JR Twin Spark
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post #11 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradGTV View Post
great project,
if i were you i would also keep the carbies
along witht he alfaholics 3D ignition kit should make for a pretty smooth reving engine. and the sound of carbies is unbeatable.
are u going to use an alfaholics intake manifold aswell?? if you can do a bit of fabrication work, just make some alloy flanges to suit the carbies and have them welded onto the standard ts manifold and block of the injectors, will save u paying the very high price for the custom reproduction manifold!
cheers, Brad
yeah I used to have the time for fabrication work and had access to a machine shop (while in college) but those days have come and gone. I went with the Alfaholics intake manifold, actually it just came in too

69alfa, I read about your experience with 40 to 45's on another thread and was thinking of changing up. I actually got the 40's while expecting to use the nord engine for a while. Maybe once the car is on the road for a little and my wallet has a chance to recover I will do a swap. Though Max seemed to think the 45's may be over carbing for the stock engine.

Max, if you are following this thread can you tell us more about this? Was I understanding that correctly?
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post #12 of 206 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 06:31 PM
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Here is a good page about the selection of Webers.
http://joltfreak.tripod.com/id28.html

The one I used is long gone or at least I can't find it .

When I went through the maths it all pointed to the 45s the way the came in the box .I did have to change the idle jets to get the motor to run smooth .

I was happy with the power but not with the gas millage or the petro stink.

Good luck with the carbs I myself am glad to be done with them but that just me.


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post #13 of 206 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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small up date

The body is fully stripped down and ready for the body shop to do their thing. I decided re-sell red was not my color and while the car was 90% of the way to fully stripped down now was the time to take care of the paint work.

Also I went a head and got 45's. I was not happy with the older mystery 40's and I wanted to try and utilize the spica air box. New 45's took care of these issues, for the moment anyway.

If I mount the air box right to the carbs then there is just enough room in a nord engine bay. Not certain about the TS engine bay but I am assuming its not going to be all that different. We will cross that bridge when we get there.

The body shop told me they would be ready this week or next for the car. And the machine shop said they should be done with the motor in the next two months....I know thats about as specific and reliable as estimating the national deficit; worthless.

Here are a couple of pics of the carbs with the spica air box.

1) with the nord intake manifold


2) without


Also here is a pic of the valve covers


Thats it for now.

Miguel

Last edited by Seabird; 02-03-2011 at 03:26 PM. Reason: spelling *@#$
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post #14 of 206 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 09:19 AM
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Using the SPICA airbox is a cool mod. Did you have to make special gaskets to get the airbox to fit flush with the carbs?

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #15 of 206 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Yes I am planning to use a foam weather seal. Had to hammer the air box a little so the carbs would get up as close to it as you see it. As it sits the two mate up fairly close; the weather seal would be to eliminate the small gaps that still exist.

I like the look and from what I have read there the factory air boxes (Euro I imagine they meant) with a fresh air feed give better performance then any of the bolt on air filters. Double bonus for me.

Hopefully it will work. I am kind of worried about the Alfaholics' intake manifold being much longer then the factory one. Max doesn't seem to think it will fit <duck> might have to fall back to the factory intake manifold w/ modification for carbs...I would rather not have to get into that though.
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