Turbo 3.2 GTA Engine In a Stratos Replica - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 12-11-2010, 01:39 PM
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Turbo 3.2 GTA Engine In a Stratos Replica

As the Title suggests I am in the process of upgrading the engine in my stratos replica.

My Last Stratos Replica - Yes I have had 2 had a twin turbo 12V 3.0 V6 with 400+ Bhp. This car after about 10 years of ownership ended its life in a big fire ball......

So now 10 years on I have bought another stratos replica which is undergoing a rebuild & engine Upgrade.

This time I have a 3.2 V6 from the 147GTA & am in the process of turbocharging it with a target of 500 BHP.
The Basic Spec for the Engine is a Garret GT3582R Turbo, Custom Stainless Exhaust, CP pistons 8.5:1 CR, and THS Con Rods. The rest of the engine will be stock save for the Spesso Recing Head Gaskets.
I have a Tilton Twin Plate 7-1/4" clutch mated to a TTV Racing Flywheel & tilton hydraulic release bearing.
Fuel Wise- I am using Deka IV 60lb Injectors & a 2 speed Fuel Lab pump, With a swirl pot fed by an aeromotive pump.

The Charge air will be cooled by a PWR 6x10" Barrel Charge Cooler core & a large front mounted Pre Rad.

Attached are a few photos of the progress so far....

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Progress is slow as i work away and am also doing much work on other areas of the car, but I hope to have it running sometime in 2011. Next step is to get the ECU and get the wiring done. The actual build of the engine will be done when the car is away for painting.....

Cheers
Neil
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:51 PM
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Impressive!!!

Your set up is an excellent concept! Quality manifold design and turbo installation.
Ceramic coating to help keep the heat energy inside the manifold?

I really should stay away from turbo'd Alfa engine pictures...........
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Old 12-12-2010, 03:41 AM
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Thanks - I think its impressive, but i am biased, so its always nice to hear.

As for the exhaust - my exhaust guy is against wrapping or coating his masterpiece. I know that keeping th eheat inside the pipes gives you more energy at the turbo, but as it keeps the heat in the pipe, it can also cause problems with overheating the exhaust. So I am not sure werther to coat the exhaust or just fit heat shields where required. The exhaust is 321 stainless before the turbo.

This engine build is in no way professional, The last one was just a case of bolting the turbos to the engine, changing the pistons & Injection system & see what happened. This is more or less the same based mostly on trial and error - I have some experience from my previous twin turbo conversion & I have done some research as to th ecorrect turbo etc, but basically its a stock 3.2V6 with Forged rods & pistons with a big turbo!

I dont see why it wont work, but only time will tell. As I said the target is 500BHP & all the components have the potential for 600 - So long as it makes over 450 then I will be happy.

This is what it looks like at present, most of the anciliaries are fitted and plumbed - Next is the rest of the car to sort....
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As I mentioned it will be charged cooled the cooler& pump can be seen above. The pre-rad is shown below together with the main radiator. Charge cooling is either good or bad depending on who you talk too, but for a rear engined car, its easier to install & PWR who supplied the equipment stand by their product if its installed as they say & if it dosent perform they have promised to provide a solution...
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The main thing seems to be that you need a big radiator, and a good water flow. I am using 25mm pipes & a craig davis EWP 115 pump..

Here are the rods & pistons
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:17 AM
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What about reinforcing the lower end of the engine? a girdle or similar.

Why have you decided go for an only turbo system instead going for two smaller ones? I see very long exhaust tubing from engine to turbo, I think you will notice the "turbo lag" compared with your previous engine.

About exhaust temperatures, usually the limit is imposed by the exhaust valves, so don't worry for coating/wrapping the tubes, this will increase the available energy to spool the turbine.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:23 AM
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I hear what your saying about ceramic and any other coating. Ideally it be applied to the inside of the pipe work to keep the heat out of the metal and in the gas, but actually getting that done without it coming off.........

If I may make 1 suggestion, set up the the fuel rail like the 75/original GTV6 where the fuel feed divides into 2 rails, 1 for each bank and then joins back together via a common fuel pressure regulator.
I have seen a modified WRX die from their uneven fuel delivery to the injectors due to the their standard fuel rail set up despite tail pipe AFR measurements showing satisfactory numbers, there were massive individual cylinder AFR variations.
A similar approach is a common upgrade on modified GTR's where a central feed is added to the fuel rail.
Either that or use an much larger diameter fuel rail than standard.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:48 AM
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Thanks for the tip - Thats the way i have done it as it made most sense to me, but I have had some discussions where i was told that it didnt matter. Its nice to know i did it right though.

I used some alloy extrusion for the custom fuel rails as below & on the second photo you can just about see.... fuel in at on end and out the other, each rail flows in the opposite direction just to make fitting the regulator easier - Forged fittings seem to take up a huge amount of room!

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As I said I am no expert at this so all usefull coments and suggestions are welcome

Cheers
Neil
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMG_V6_btb View Post
What about reinforcing the lower end of the engine? a girdle or similar.

Why have you decided go for an only turbo system instead going for two smaller ones? I see very long exhaust tubing from engine to turbo, I think you will notice the "turbo lag" compared with your previous engine.

About exhaust temperatures, usually the limit is imposed by the exhaust valves, so don't worry for coating/wrapping the tubes, this will increase the available energy to spool the turbine.
With the previous engine nothing was done to strengthen the lower end of the engine, so I am hoping that it will be Ok this time.

As for the use of a single turbo it was done for packaging reasons mainly & also to some extent the cost. The single turbo will take longer to spool than two smaller ones, but this is a ball bearing turbo compared to two journal bearing turbos I had before and the ball bearing turbos spool faster. Also this time I am using 8.5:1 compression ratio and last time it was 7.25:1 so the off boost performance will be better on this engine. All things considered I was hoping that there wouldnt be too much more lag.

Cheers

Neil

Last edited by turbonutter; 12-12-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 12-12-2010, 03:33 PM
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Amazing project! How much would you ike for the GTA pistons?
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Old 12-12-2010, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 75evo View Post
Amazing project! How much would you ike for the GTA pistons?
Thanks, Just wish I could get it finished like NOW!

As for the pistons - I have already had an enquiry by email about selling the pistons & rods. Two inquiries in Just over 24 hours for somthing I haddnt thought of selling before now. Are these pistons that hard to source? At the moment I am trying to think of a price for him, as I dont know the going rate... You have second refusal.

Cheers
Neil
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Old 12-15-2010, 03:13 PM
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I have a reasonably local Tuning Place that i was planning to use for mapping this engine. They supply Motec & Haltec ECU's So I was thinking to use one of those & as the motec is out of my budget, then it would be the Haltec one - anyone have any experience with the Haltec ECU's?

Cheers
Neil
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:25 PM
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You appear to be building my dream car! Is it based on a Hawk kit? You should have no problem getting 500HP with that turbo and comp ratio! I reckon 18psi will do it

Haltech is a good brand, it's probably the best bang for your buck out there for higher end gear, good support forum on their website too. I ran the E6X computer on a Nissan 1.8L CA18DET (in a Datsun 1200) with a Garrett hybrid GT2535 BB turbo and it was sweet once tuned properly. My dad also runs an older (10 years old?) Haltech on his GTV6 3L with Pace cams, larger inlet runners and a few other mods and it has been 100% reliable as a daily driver for the last 5 years.

As a side note, Greg Gordon on this forum sells forged rods and forged low comp non-interference pistons to suit 12 valvers.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:22 PM
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Well I'm hooked, built it...built it quick :-). You wont notice any lag from that setup, do the calcs, the time to fill those pipes and the heat lost once lagged will equate to stuff all lag, you would never pick it at the seat of the pants. Nice photos, great build!
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:01 AM
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Some positive comments - so thats good.

Its nice to know that i am not the only one who thinks there will be not much lag..

The Car is A Corse Kit, not the Hawk. It is the second one I have had the first I built & this one i bought second hand.
You must have the same calculator as me as I had estimated about 18PSI (at the plenum) to get the 500BHP.

The Haltec ECU sounds promising and it is supplied by the rolling road i plan to use, so they should be well upto the mapping.

The rods I have are the same as supplied by Greg Gordon. I got them direct from the makers though, as they ar made in the UK.


Cheers

Neil

Last edited by turbonutter; 12-17-2010 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:27 PM
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impressive work, looks good
how much does one of these car weight?
i would also go with the haltech, iam going to buy one when i start my turbo build and have the spare cash the support forum is very helpful for info and if you get stuck, but it seems the shop you buy it from should be able to give you the info and support if u need it.
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Last edited by BradGTV; 12-17-2010 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradGTV View Post
impressive work, looks good
how much does one of these car weight?
i would also go with the haltech, iam going to buy one when i start my turbo build and have the spare cash the support forum is very helpful for info and if you get stuck, but it seems the shop you buy it from should be able to give you the info and support if u need it.
The most impressive Job is the Exhaust & I cant take credit for that - It was done by OJZ engineering.

The car should weigh in at between 1050 & 1100KG when its complete with all the turbo stuff.

The Haltec stuff does sound good & good support is always helpfull - If i had the money i would use Motec - but i dont!
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