Alfa 75 3.0 Twin Turbo

[ALFA-75-MAN]

Okay now that I got your attention can someone please explain why there aren’t any sweet turbo kits for Alfas?

I can only find small amounts of information on any kind of mods available for an Alfa 75. Why?

The people that have modified don't take the time to share with some exceptions here on BB.

The Africa engines are sweet but doesn't it piss you off that we have to get engines in Africa? With all do respect to Mr. Dawie!

I just want to bolt on two turbo small just like the BMW 3.0 twins and if I have to I will mod the engine and other parts as well.

I just want someone to map it out for me and I will do my best to achieve it.

Having an Alfa is wonderful but trying to get parts to modify or keep them running smoothly has been insane.

You would think an email to Alfa Romeo asking if you can purchase a modern engine would get you somewhere. Nope!

Going to a speed shop asking what parts you have to modify an Alfa Romeo Milano? Response: An Alfla Rommayo what?

Is there anyone on this earth preferably in North America who can assist me?

I don't want to super charge I want twin turbo to at least 300 HP at the wheels with bullet proof internals.

Do I call JE pistons and ask them for parts?

Do I yank out an engine from BMW and stick her in to my Italian car? Oh no!!

I believe the most frustrating part of having an Alfa Milano Verde is the lack of any mechanical assistance when you want more ponies.

I truly don't understand why a decent 3.0 engine cannot be made to quench my thirst once and for all.

I am now looking to purchase a BMW 135i or a G37 vs. trying to mod my Alfa.

So nice not seeing one on every corner like the Jap cars.

Okay I have vented and spoke my mind I have an appointment with a mechanic on Thursday to discuss this thirst I have.

Oh one more thing the Callaway twins of three centuries ago where done but the technology today should be better. Right?

So where are the bolt on kits? Why oh why is this such a task for performance shops??

I will go sulk in front of you tube and view 3.7 engines or Alfa 75 on race tracks. Anyone want to share their secrets to modifying these cars?

Anyone

[raff_gta]

Turboing a V6 is a great idea, and something I would definitely do if I had the money. How would I go about it personally? Ok here I go...

Firstly, exhaust manifold wise, I would have the turboes sitting towards the front of the car, meaning the battery, aircon and powersteering must go. Rack wise, I would replace it with a Giulietta rack which is manual and has a better turning ratio. With the two turbos sitting towards the front, I would have two intake pipes running down towards the front bar, getting air from a Veloce or EVO kit. The charged pipes will go off towards the lower part of the front bar where a twin-turbo intercooler will sit. Obviously there, I would re-route the pipes back to the inlet, preferably a twin throttle set up. If you are handy, you could make these, if not, it'll cost you big bucks.

In terms of Injection, I would personally run a Motec ECU (big bucks again) but you can always use any type you'd like. Injector wise, Id get a set of 6 off of a V8 or the like here in Australia, and get a custom fuel rail made to suit the inlet. Tuning? Id be paying a professional personally...

Head work? Standard, matchported heads with stainless steel valves all round. Obviously you could port, but thats more money. Cam wise, I'd leave it standard.

Internally you have two options; Forged Pistons or Modified standard pistons. Callaway were able to get 300hp or the like out of the 3 litre twin turboes they were making which had standard pistons with slight machining on them to lower the compression. Remember that this was in the 80s, with **** injection. Now, with a proper tune, you could probably keep the standard items and run a decent amount of boost. Also remember, 330 rwhp or there abouts is the maximum your box will take. Rods wise, Id shotpeen them for added security and balance the engine for good measure.

Anyway, thats what I would do, but itd cost heaps of money!!! If you can afford it, do it! Screw the jap crap!!

[ALFA-75-MAN]

Hey good day mate!

What a surprise an Aussie first to chime in with nice comments which made for a good start of my day.

I will take this up with my mechanic and by the way I love this:

i cavalli mai abbastanza, ed il peso sempre troppo...

[Duk]

Greg Gordon can supply forged pistons that are 10thou over sized (slightly bored/hone to size your original liners) and aftermarket rods that will last a lot longer than your trans axle..........

Manifolds eat up a lot of coin due to the shear fact that they take a long time to do and to do propperly. Think thick wall pipe ('steam pipe') and propperly made collectors with thick flanges that have been machined after all the welding has been done. That is expensive unless you can do a lot your self.
MIG welding doesn't apply here! It lacks propper, consistant penetration and tends to be a rather stressed weld. It may be fast but that's about it's only good point. TIG is the obvious choice, but the propper manifold builders are pumping their sheilding gas both over the weld and inside the pipe. Coin!
A good arc welder and correct rods can achieve a decent, strong manifold, but arc (stick) welding is difficult in some areas.

It's only arc/stick welding and TIG that are used in pressure vessel welding.

I've built 1 (nearly 2, been lazey) manifold and welded it together with my Henrob 2000 gas welder. The end result is a strong, ductile weld with excellent penetration. I did however, use arc welding to weld the flanges to the pipe work, purely because using the Henrob to do that results in some very hot hands .

If you can make parts yourself like grinding and cutting the pipes to make the manifolds, simply tack them together and then get them welded and machined, then that will save a lot of money. If you can't.............. Coin!

Forming mental pictures is, in my mind, the most important aspect of doing custom work.
Having a turbo or 2 to hold in place in the areas you're considering to put them is hugely important. It'll help you build that picture of how things need to go, where you'll need to make room, what things have to be relocated. Mounting the turbos will be the easy part. Doing it without frying things to death is a big challenge. That is HUGELY important! I know of 1 car that was very badly burnt because the clowns that did that turbo upgrade didn't think that thru.

Also, you must be able to assemble and disassemble it, so consideration to tool and hand access has to be given.

[ALFA-75-MAN]

Well I'm an HVAC mechanic by trade and currently teach at a college so I have some background or at the very least not afraid.

I will ask Mr. Gordon what parts he may have to assist me in my project.

I am finally out of that sell mode and decided to keep my car and modify.

The only thing in my way: No not money! No not time!

The wife!!! "BY A NEW CAR!"

So this is life I guess she must be immune to the Alfa bug.

[AlfaTango1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALFA-75-MAN Well I'm an HVAC mechanic by trade and currently teach at a college so I have some background or at the very least not afraid. I will ask Mr. Gordon what parts he may have to assist me in my project. I am finally out of that sell mode and decided to keep my car and modify. The only thing in my way: No not money! No not time! The wife!!! "BY A NEW CAR!" So this is life I guess she must be immune to the Alfa bug.

[budweiser_sud]

As with most things, if you have enough time & money to throw at a project you can acheive just about anything

Twin turbo kits for Alfa V6's sounds like a great idea - but for what market? Current Alfa's are transverse so there is little room for a turbo let alone 2. The UK Autodelta outfit regularly install small super charges to current V6s, and I'm sure the power increases are decent but I don't think they will be huge. So that only really leaves the 75 and GTV6 market, and there are probably a lot fewer enthusiasts into those cars than there are Skylines Hence the plethora of off the shelf after market parts...

The mods mentioned above are all valid, but the weakest link will be the transaxle. How much HP do you want - and do you expect? I would imaginage a 75 with 300 rear wheel bhp will be a pretty fearsome sleeper - if you can hide the intercoolers. Another factor, so often forgotten, is what is the car worth to someone else when its time to sell? If the mods are done right, with great finish and detail (as well as the technical aspect) then there might be the right customer willing to pay a premium for a well modified car. However, ask yourself how much you would pay for a modified Skyline and I'm guessing you'd probably want an unmolested one to start with rather than someone else customized jobby (Skyline for comparison sake as they are so often modded - Jap stuff is a bad word around here!).

Food for thought anyway, but if you can:
a) do most of the work yourself
b) prepared to invest in decent materials, machining, welding, etc
c) have the stamina and guts to finish it
d) cough up a whole lotta bills

... then go for it

Good luck!

~Benjamin

[Greg Gordon]

I love these hard core enthusiast threads. I doubt you will see anyone make a twin turbo kit for the Milano. The economy of scale just isn't there. However, you can do it yourself.

Everything you need to fabricate the manifolds can be bought from Burn's stainless. It's going to cost you, check out the prices for the collectors alone: TurboCollectors If that's out of your budget, you could go the cheap route and use plumbing parts. I have seen that done successfully. A forced induction Alfa is a lot of fun, but it's going to cost a lot more than an equivalent project on a common Japanese car due to the economy of scale issue.

Greg Gordon,
HI Performance Store, Inc

[raff_gta]

Check these links...

Im sure you'll find that if you are handy with a welder, you can make your own manifolds for a very fair price!!!

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[ALFA-75-MAN]

Well just got back from my second trip to a speed shop.

I went in the morning to see if I could get spark plug wire set and a few other goodies.

I ended up with a nice Momo shift knob and boot but nothing else was available for my Verde.

I spent an hour to remove the console not the most friendly thing to remove this is my second one. Funny when you space it out in time your brain forgets what a pain in the a$$ the first removal was.

Anyhow just had a quick read from the wonderful replies quite a bit of info here to digest.

I don't see a real problem with designing a manifold my concern has nothing to do with the work.

My wife feels the car is old and ugly and not worth spending money on.

I know calling a mans car ugly not very nice!! But my wife drives our Lexus TL. She insist I look at purchasing new so I got two cars in mind Infinity G37 or BMW 135i.

Funny my car drove so sweet this evening for a 21 year old car it was purring on the Highway and shifting perfectly.

Makes me wonder why these cars don't go up in value?

Anyhow got some small cosmetic mods to do like possibly paint the console black. Would like to make it out of carbon fiber to match my very nice headliner but $$$$.

Will do some reading I wish to thank you guys for your input as always great stuff.

Where do you guys purchase spark wires for your cars?

I just saw a company called Nology and they use capacitors for each wire but $320.00 dollars!

Time for some reading before bed time

[jazig.k]

oldish thread, but there are a few twin turbo 75's and gtv6's in melbourne i can think of. just gotta know the right ppl.

try 'beninca's' in melbs, they have regular contact with one person i know that has a GTV6TT. and im told they have done a fair few T's and TT's for customers.

also, millie miglia in melb too, his son runs another GTV6TT. last i heard he had the stuff all pulled off after a defect, and was selling it all. i pestered his father for a price etc, but he decided to keep the lot and put it back on. that was a mean looking front end and engine bay!
and if you get your foot into the more 'underground' alfa scene, you'll get to meet some more ppl with turbo's or seriously modded alfas.

[junglejustice]

Magnecor offers a good product and Group 2 in Seattle stocks them for the Alfas... They have also done some custom wires for me to fit specific combinations of coil-bricks etc..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALFA-75-MAN Okay now that I got your attention can someone please explain why there aren’t any sweet turbo kits for Alfas? Anyone

[CorseChris]

Hopefully he'll be along shortly and put some more meat onto this....but a friend did a twin turbo 164 engine a few years back. Solid 400+ bhp at flywheel. LC pistons, pretty much everything else stock IIRC. He did have problems with the collectors along the way, but got a good result in the end. He is now working on a single turbo 3.2 24V GTA motor so watch this space - it should be interesting.

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I put a management system on another 12V 164 motor, again twin turbo, in a race car. Other than LC pistons, I have no idea of it's spec, but at a mild 12psi of boost it was making 350bhp at the flywheel.


...and I'm still working on a supercharged 12V 164 motor for my kit car, which has a set of 8.8:1 pistons from Greg and a pair of cams made to order from Richard J. Sadly, I have no real idea what boost this is going to get, nor how much power it'll make. My last effort on a 10:1 engine with C&B mild road cams made way less boost than expected, for a whole load of reasons, so I'm saying nothing this time!!

...but it's all going to be DIY whichever way you decide to go.

Get busy

[turbonutter]

That would be a call to me then chris!

It was about 15 years ago I did a twin turbo 164 Engine for my stratos. I did the conversion without too much planning. Basicaly I bolted a pair of garett T-25 Turbos to the engine, fitted forged low compresion pistons and an after market injection system. That was it apart from a small groove in the tops of the liners and of course bigger injectors & fuel pump. The engine was stripped and rebuilt with new bearings, oil pump etc, but i assume that goes without saying. I also had everything balanced as I had the flywheel machined to fit a competition clutch. But for 300BHP an uprated standard clutch is enough.

First run on the rollers I had 310BHP at the flywheel @ 0.6 bar boost.

The engine ran for 6 years with steadily increasing boost - at one point I increased the boost beyond the point where the injectors could provide enough fuel & that melted the turbine wheels (expensive mistake) I had the turbos re-built with larger turbine housings, fitted bigger injectors & bigger fuel pump again, wound the boost up to 1.5 Bar and at that point I must have had over 400BHP from what was basically a stock engine. The rods held, the head gasket held so all was good.

The big problem i had was the manifolds. I had various ones made or made them myself, but they were always trouble with cracking or warping.

So to sum up my experience, if you are looking for 300-350 BHP,
You need to rebuild the engine with some Low compression forged pistons, injectors & fuel pump to match your desired power output.
The injection system needs sorting.
You need a pair of turbos. Talk to any decent garett dealer and they will advise what you need.
An intercooler is also a must- in my opinion.
I would also recommend geting the manifolds made by a professional - they take a lot of abuse and can be a big problem.

Also take good care with the fuel system - I had an engine fire which totalled the car - cause unknown. So use top quality hose etc on the fuel system.

Any Questions I will try to answer, but I am no expert.

I will soon be doing a 3.2 V6 turbo with a power goal of 500BHP at the flywheel. This time I have taken a bit more time over the project. Infact I have done nothing but plan/research for the last 6 months & I am now just about happy with what i am going to do, what components I will use, what suppliers I am happy with & who to use for the work that I cant do i.e. the exhaust.

Whatever you do try to make a budget & cost everything before you start any project like this takes $$$$ and if you do have a budget - add 25% and then you might be close to th efinal cost.
I am sure CorseChris will second this!!

Neil

[junglejustice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorseChris My last effort on a 10:1 engine with C&B mild road cams made way less boost than expected, for a whole load of reasons, so I'm saying nothing this time!!