Alternator

[wolf]

Hi
The 2000GT Veloce is fitted with a 45amp output alternator.
Has anyone fitted a higher output alternator from a recent Alfa?
I'm thinking of fitting a modern car sound system.
Wolf

[alfa_chan]

I want to fit my GTV with some higher output BOSCH alternator (generator) too.
Wanna put an electric radiator fan, and probably an electric powered AC - still looking for one.

Please help. Do I need special tools to pull the pulley off the generator, btw? Thank you.

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf Hi The 2000GT Veloce is fitted with a 45amp output alternator. Has anyone fitted a higher output alternator from a recent Alfa? I'm thinking of fitting a modern car sound system. Wolf

[dwc]

Hi Guys:


The alternator (70 - 75 amp) from a '90 - '94 Spider will bolt on to your earlier cars. I've used that unit on both my '74 and '87 Spider's without trouble. Of course the biggest improvement came on the '74, as it originally had a 35 amp unit. Now I can use the H4 high beams, defroster fan, wipers, and the stereo all at once. I had one tiny problem on both cars, though, which was easy to remedy. The fan on the new alternator (at least on both of mine) was ever-so-slightly larger than the original, so it rubbed (barely) on the washer under the head of the main mounting bolt, and also slightly on the bottom edge of the adjustment bracket. A little grinding of the washer and the bracket fixed things right up.

Besides the extra current output, the other difference is that the new alternator has its voltage regulator built-in. For the new alternator wiring, first remove the old regulator and the harness that connected it to the old alternator. Keep them or trash them, but they don't need to be on the car any longer. There will be one wire (green) left unattached in the car's harness, which is for the alternator light. Run a green 14 ga. jumper from it to terminal 'D+' on the new alternator. The big red wire from the B+ on the old alternator is the same on the new, but I replaced it with a larger 8 ga. wire, as I though the originla was undersized, even with the smaller alternator.

Also, I should tell you that others have used GM/Delco, Ford, or Chrysler alternators of various current output, which are usually available for less than $50. Some minor machining is usually necessary, and I didn't know if that was an option for you. I prefer to stay with a Bosch, anyway, as it's 100% bolt-on, and it looks original.

Here's a source for the Bosch alternator:

http://autoexpress.safeshopper.com/196/cat196.htm?201

$83, including core charge, and a 3-year warranty. Don't forget to disconnect the ground wire from your battery before doing anything, and ask if you have any questions.

Regards,

Dean
Lutz, FL
'74 & '87 Spider Veloce's

[artart]

Saw a couple of the full time racers at AROC who used Delco's.
Everyone said that a spacer was required on the bottom bolt and another bracket was required to the adjustemnt bracket on top.
They are $35 bucks and you can use them with the internal regulators and only connect one wire. The hot rodders made this approach popular. Skip Patinode from VA & I spoke regarding this approach, he is coinvinced it's the way to go...
Just added an amp, CD changer and new deck to my 88 and now getting a slight glow at idle and can see the ammeter drop below 12 when I have lights and wipers on at crusing speed...so I'm getting ready to do something myself.
artart

[dwc]

I'm aware that the GM/Delco alternators have been used, but I'm not certain it's a bolt-on swap. A friend installed one on his '71 Spider last year, and had to mill a fair amount of metal from the rear of the mounting boss on the alternator. To clarify, the alternator sat too far forward on the timing cover before the milling. If you need specific details, let me know and I'll get in touch with him, and he can send some pictures of what was necessary. I also don't know if the Delco alternator has an output terminal (D+) for the indicator light on the dash. My recollection from owning a mid-80's Chevy was that there was the B+ cable and then a 2-wire plug that connected to the internal regulator.

I had a 1750 GTV in the late 70's that I did a lot of rallying with, and I managed to find a 75-amp Mopar alternator that did bolt directly on, and with it, I was able to use all the extra lights at once.

Something you might investigate on your '88, before swapping alternators, is the voltage output you've got now. For whatever reason, the Bosch units seem to have their regulators set a bit low, at least the ones I've seen. My '87 was barely making 13.2 volts, but had no trouble making its rated 70 amps. I changed to an adjustable voltage regulator, set at 13.8 volts, and the difference in how things work, like the power windows and wipers is pretty dramatic. These regulators are available for ~$22, and you'll get a new set of brushes at the same time. I also upgraded the B+ wire from the alternator to two 8 ga. wires. One goes to the terminal block on the left inner fender, and the other runs directly to the starter B+ terminal. I measured an additional 0.5 volts at the fuse box and it seems to keep the battery more fully charged, too. Everyone makes a big deal about poor grounds on Alfa's causing trouble, but every circuit has two sides, and the supply side can sometimes use some attention, too.

Regards,

Dean

[papajam]

Quote:

Originally posted by dwc I also don't know if the Delco alternator has an output terminal (D+) for the indicator light on the dash. My recollection from owning a mid-80's Chevy was that there was the B+ cable and then a 2-wire plug that connected to the internal regulator.

[Alex Csank]

I decided to just build my own bracket and mount a GM/Delco unit with the internal regulator for my '69 Spider. It works great!

Cheers,

[acurtiss]

Hi all,

I'm at the steep end of the learning curve here, but I'm trying to figure out what the problem is with charging system on my 67 Duetto. I have been scouring these bulletin boards and learned a lot, but I'm not sure what to do next. I've replaced the voltage regulator with a new Bosch unit, the battery is at full charge, and the fuses and fuse box are in good shape.

The symptoms are pretty standard: the battery isn't charging, and the generator light glows constantly and will often get brighter with faster revs. I have the Alfa Romeo Owner's Bible and his one line about the gen light is that it means "the ground wire to the generator is probably bad." (92) Now, my generator has a D+ terminal (red wire) and a DF terminal (black wire), strung to the voltage regulator. There is also a threaded hole with D- written next to it, only there is no terminal or corresponding wire attached here. So that's the generator.

On my old Bosch regulator, there were separate terminals for, on the left, B+ (two spades here), and 61 (one spade); and on the right, DF (spade), D+ (larger spade), and a lower bolt for D-. The new regulator, also Bosch and correct for 1600s, puts only B+ on the left side, and on the right D+ and 61 on the same bolt, with DF on another and D- on the lower bolt. I did the logical thing and fixed both 61 and D+ wires to the shared terminal, and connected everything else as appropriate.

When I reconnected the battery and started the car up, there was still no charge to the battery, and still a glowing GEN light on the dash.

So obviously the voltage regulator is not at fault here, and I'm lead to believe that my generator is just tired. But the fact that there is a D- terminal on it and nothing attached to that makes me wonder. I've had this car for a little over a year and these electrical problems have only started happening since the weather got rainy (and of course I've been running wipers, heater, lights, more often than before).

Is an alternator conversion the ultimate fix here? I'm almost hoping it is, in spite of the time and money I've already spent trying to figure out what the problem is.

If anyone can help me with some tips on diagnosing the generator (I have a mulitimeter), that would be great. Or if this seems like an obvious time to swap in an alternator, any tips on that would be great, too.

Thanks,
Aaron
(Here's the car )

[Alex Csank]

The Alfa generator is not bad as generators go, but they are prone to needing attention pretty regularly and they never really do put out that much power. When running the wipers, lights and heater fan, the generator just can't keep up it seems.

In my view, converting to an alternator made a lot of sense. Now that I have, I can run the wipers, lights, heater fan, etc and not worry about a thing.

The conversion is easy and inexpensive and it sure works! Plus, if you ever really need to be in concours condition, just keep the gennie and put her back in when you need to!

Cheers,

[dwc]

Hi Aaron:

Unless you're a concours fanatic looking to preserve 100% originality, there's no reason not to install a modern alternator. Take a look at this srticle about the conversion from a generator to alternator:

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/d...37/duealt.html

I've always used the latest Bosch internal regulator type, but as you can see in previous postings, others have used the GM units. I like the fact that the Bosch units look more original, are made for the higher rpm range of an Alfa engine, and also that an adjustable internal regulator is an inexpensive upgrade. But, I haven't heard of any problems with the GM's, so that option is certainly viable.

Regards,

Dean
Lutz, FL
'74 & '87 Spider Veloce's

[papajam]

With changing out the regulator, the generator may need to be 'polarized'. To do this, and assuming there's battery voltage at the regulator B+ terminal, fashion a jumper wire and momentarily jump terminals B+ and DF at the regulator. And yes, there will be a spark! Now start the car and using your multimeter, check for voltage at the DF terminal on the regulator. If it's not battery voltage, there's something up with the regulator. If there is battery voltage at the DF terminal, check the voltage at the generator DF terminal. It MUST be the same as the regulator DF terminal voltage. If it isn't, repair/replace the DF wire. If the voltages check OK, then the gennie probably needs a re-brush and a commutator dressing (or an alternator conversion).

[acurtiss]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies.

Jim, I went ahead and did as you suggested and 'polarized' the generator. Then I checked the DF voltage, but I think I may have done it wrong. First I used the voltmeter over B+ and DF and it showed 12.23. Same at generator: DF to battery + was 12.23. So, if I did this correctly the result is that the wire is good. I'm just questioning now whether I checked the right thing.

Also, if anyone out there knows Bosch numbers, this is what my generator reads:
BOSCH 705
01012060660059
EG --> 14V25A29

I suspect this is already a replacement part.

Thanks again for your help everyone. The alternator conversion is looking like the best option right now.

Aaron

[papajam]

Well, you accomplished what needed to get done but in a way I didn't think of. By checking voltage between terminals B+ and DF at the regulator and generator, you've determined 3 things; 1) there's battery voltage at the B+ terminal (that's good) 2) the DF wire is OK (also good) and 3) there's no voltage at the DF terminal; not good.
Please keep in mind that due to the lack of popularity in the use of generators these days, my diagnostic technique IS rusty. This next test is used to test alternators so it may work for generators too. It bypasses the regulator and applies battery voltage to the field circuit. Hence the term 'full fielding'. Hook up the voltmeter to the battery. Start the engine and run it at a fast idle, say 1200 - 1300rpm, using the hand throttle under to dash (so THAT'S what that thing is for ). Note the battery voltage. Momentarily jump terminals B+ and DF at the regulator while looking at the voltmeter. If the voltage stays the same or drops, the generators not working. If the voltage increases, the generators working but the regulator isn't.
The only difference between the part number on your generator and what's listed in the parts book is the '0059' which isn't in the parts book. What is listed though is the letter (R) in parenthesis after the 'EG'. The Bosch regulator # is 0 190 350 023.

[acurtiss]

Quote:

Originally posted by papajam ... and 3) there's no voltage at the DF terminal;

[acurtiss]

Ok, so the alternator arrived and I'm ready to get a little dirty this weekend making this conversion.

I have a couple quick questions. When the alternator arrived it included a note that said to be sure to charge the battery before using the alternator. I'm not exactly sure why this is necessary, and although my battery is not dead, it's not at full strength either (about 11 volts or so). I'm happy enough to charge it again, but if I can avoid yet another walk to Kragen carrying a battery, that would be nice. A related question would be, can I connect a jump start battery to bring my car battery up to a healthy charge?

Now, about the actual work of removing the generator and installing the alternator, I suspect this is easier to do with the air intake removed, but is it necessary to also remove the radiator and fan?

Any other last minute words of wisdom are appreciated.

Thanks!
Aaron