wont start when it gets really wet!

[jcweho92Spider]

hi guys,

i hope you guys can help me with my 92 spider..its been having problems recently.

On 26th of Dec LAST YEAR (can u believe it!?) it was raining very hard here in LA and i had my car coverred but it was still parking outside getting all the rain. later that day, the car would not start. i jumped up the car and get the battery recharged to full and the car seemed to be fine. However, it died again after leaving her undriven for 5 days (I was away). i knew that it rained bad in LA during those days. I then jumpped up the car that night and it was fine starting. I woke up the next morning and realized it had been raining over night and of course, it died again. so i am really frustrated now that it seems that the car would not start after it gets completly soaked. I dont think its the battery problem cause i have left the car undriven for 5 days before and it was fine. (no rain). i did have problems where the car loses its power while driving and the check engine light went on after the car gets washed. I then taped the channels on the hood when i wash the car and it was better.

i am sure now that it is the water issue and has to do with the electrial system but how can i get that tested? anyone has any ideas?


jan-

[John M]

Hey Jan:

Lots of possibilities. Maybe even a couple of things going on. Best advice I can give you is to start ruling out the electrical system. This means testing the battery and alternator/voltage regulator. Just about any major chain auto parts store like Autozone, Advanced Auto, Pep Boys, even WalMart can do this and determine if the battery or the alternator/voltage reg is bad. Could just be a bad battery not holding charge. Could be a bad alternator not putting out enough amps to charge the battery or improper current. Could be a bad voltage regulator. If you think about your discussion, it sounds like after driving at night, you had to turn around and jump the next day. Lights on, fan on, radio on really put a load on a weak system and will show itself at night and the day after.

So once you rule those out, you can start to look at drains. What have you added to the car? Do you have an alarm system? Do you have an aftermarket stereo? My bet is that is has nothing to do with getting wet.....possibly just very coincidental in regards to the battery.

On the water thought, you mentioned loosing power and check engine light coming on. You need to pull that code from the check engine light. Most common problem check engine light related is an air leak between the air flow meter and the intake. Check the intake hoses. Air leaks will cause the car to run rough and even stall and fail to start. Another thing to consider is the O2 sensor. The connector for the O2 sensor lies along the firewall near the brake master cylinder and perhaps could be getting wet and shorting it out when it rains. It wouldn't run your battery down but it would make your car run rough. But the long and short of a check engine light.....and its a gift....is to pull the code to have a place to start.

Best Regards,
John M

[jcweho92Spider]

hi john,
thanks for the input.

well, i have taken out the battery to pepboys and they tested and recharged the battery, it does hold the charge. so the batter is good. so i will check the alternator and voltage regulator.

I did have an aftermarket amplifier but it had never given me problems though. the wire connected to the battery and i had accidentally burned it by connecting positive to the negative when i jumped up the car! bad me!!

I have also taken her to a alfa shop and this mechanic ran a computer test and all the code came back normal, he could not find anything wrong as far as check engine light, i also mentioned air leak and 02 sensor but they have found nothing, either.

and that is why i came to a conclusion that it has to be the electrical problem. cuz the car only has problems when it gets wet. rain, car wash. but i will check the voltage regulator to see what's up.
btw, the oil pressure gauge stops working, (or on and off, but never went back to what it supposed to be, say 45-57 when the car is running) it doesnt have anything to do with the whole thing, does it?

thanks,

Jan-

[John M]

Hey Jan:

Considering the burnt wire to the amp and the misplaced jumper cables long enough to burn that wire...you may have fried the wiring up front. Lets hope that is not the case. How long did you have the cables reversed? I would disconnect the amp for sure. If the power wire is fried....it probably is too. And that could very well be your battery drain.

On the code in the computer, it does not clear itself. If the check engine light come on....the code is there. Even after the check engine light goes out....for weeks upon weeks....the code will remain. The car does not have to be hooked up to any computer to read. There is a button on the car's computer to push and then the code is flashed through the check engine light in a series of long and short flashes and pauses. Its a four digit number. You count the short flashes for the numbers and the long pauses seperate the individual numbers.

If you take it to the Alfa shop....and he puts it on his computer to see how the car is running.....it will show fine...providing the check engine light is off. He must pull the code off the computer.

On the oil pressure.....has the gauge completely quit working? If so probably a bad sending unit or disconnected wire to the sending unit. But if you have an alternator going bad...it could make all the gauges read incorrectly or not at all. And when it gets really bad....all the lights on the dash will come on just before she dies completely for lack of electricity.

Keep us posted. Hopefully just an alternator.

Best Regards,
John

[papajam]

If I understand the symptoms, the battery goes flat after it rains, it sounds like the water is providing a path from battery positive to ground somewhere and draining the battery. But it's not a dead short. As John said, the burned amp wire may be a good place to start. I'd also check the junction block on the left inner fender and the wires to it for signs of chafed insulation. You might want to try hooking up an ammeter in series with the positive battery cable. Then, using some kind of sprayer (like a Windex bottle) filled with water, spray water around the length of the engine bay harnesses while looking at the meter. If (or when) the meter starts showing an amp draw, your getting real close to where the problem is.

[acurtiss]

Hi all,

I'm going to jump in here because I'm having a similar wet-weather problem on my 67 Duetto and have been following this thread a bit. I'm pretty sure my voltage regulator has quit on me, but it's giving me an opportunity to check out the whole charging system.

Yesterday while inspecting the wiring all around the car I came to the fuse box and realized there's an electrical part there that I don't know the purpose of. It's a small, black plastic box mounted to the fuse box bracket. It has three terminals, I think two black and one red but I might have that reversed. Also, the brand is "Mixo" and it says Made in France. The wiring to this box is kind of amateur (lots of loose electrical tape, some exposed metal), so I'm led to believe it's some kind of aftermarket item. Only I have no idea what it does.

Is anyone familiar with this part?

Thanks,
Aaron

[papajam]

Sounds like it might be a horn relay.

[jcweho92Spider]

thanks guys, i am going to try many things this weekend to get my car straighted out..

to answer John's question, the reversed cables were connected about 10 sec. once i noticed the car didnt start and the stick got hot, i immediately disconnected the cables..

when you said to disconnect the amp, does that mean i should not install one? is there any other way to get one installed then? the new amp i am getting is 450watts..i have heard people say that it is too much for the alternator in an alfa to handle the current. it might burn up?

but, this is what happened yesterday.
i moved the car from the covered garage on wendesday night to the street parking. starting no problem. thursday morning, car died..noticed there there were lots of water deposit and knew the car died from the sprinkler that morning. when turned key to ignition, all lights on panels went on, clock worked, but when turned to "run", it didnt start.
Later thursday night, i tried again, but everything died. no lights, not even the clock. so i jumped up the car, it seems fine now.

what I dont understand is, if say the cause was the wet distubitor cap or dirty spark plugs or wires, why would the battery got drained out overtime? they dont have anything connected, do they? or say, the amp wire, the amplifer has been dead since the polarity incident, but the car still died yesterday, (water, i assume).

so i cannot link all the factors together...i am confused!

Jan-

[John M]

Hey Jan:

Just to reply about the amp....I don't really know what the alternator can handle. I have never went down that road with any car. Most aftermarket stereos and more than likely the original Alfa one have a built in amp of around 35w per channel. Amp only comes into play when one desires to bumpaty thump thump thump all those around them.

My suggestion is to immediately remove the old amp and wiring if not already gone. If you want to replace with new..no problem...just be sure to replace the wiring and fuse the power source. Will the bad amp do it? Absolutely! If its still there its probably the cause. If you fried the power wire to it....that means it was never fused...just wired directly to the battery. And no doubt it fried the amp if it fried the power wire up to the amp. Is the amp in the trunk? Maybe water getting to it from a leaky trunk seal facilitating the drain. In my honest opinion, its now a fire hazard. Take that amp and its power wire to the battery out immediately.

On the distributor and spark plug wires questions....I don't think it has anything to do with the battery draining. They don't get power unless the ignition is on. I would follow papa's spray bottle suggestion if removing the amp doesn't solve the problem.

Best Regards,
John M

[jcweho92Spider]

thank you john,
the old is still in the trunk and i will remove it once i go home. i will keep you guys posted.
thanks again,
j-