Pertronix Ignitor for a Marelli distro

[Colin P]

Hi Carlos,

Thank you very much for this very useful info!

I've just emailed Retro Rockets to get the ball rolling, and pointed them to your reply post re the MR-LS3 suiting the distributor. I wonder what is different between the S145C and the CX?

In the short period between posting my question and receiving your reply I actually swapped my Marelli distributor with the Bosch just to see if the Bosch worked. It worked fine, but I know the history of the Marelli - I had it re-built about 2 years ago, so it's my preference.

Do you mind if I ask if you noticed any obvious performance difference once you installed the Ignitor?
Was the installation easy enough?
Do you have any tips or hints for the uninitiated?

Cheers,
-Col-

[CarlosSpider]

Sorry. I will install it this weekend. I am not looking for better performance but for more reliability and less maintenance.

I will inform you on sunday

[Colin P]

Carlos,

I've just ordered the MR-LS3 from RetroRockets per your recommendation.

You are right about their efficiency. I received a reply within hours, with very useful info on how to make sure which Ignitor fits.
Excellent price too! USD81.00 plus 18.00 postage and insurance. This is almost half the price that the local vendor charges.
Mind you, when the local guy tried to tell me there wasn't an Ignitor to fit either the Marelli or Bosch distributors I decided I was taking my business elsewhere

Thanks for your assistance and advice!

-Col-

[Colin P]

Hi Carlos,

I received my Pertronix Ignitor MR-LS3 last week, and unfortunately just like yours it does not fit.

So I may as well take this opportunity to make a public announcement for the benefit of others with Marelli dizzies wanting to convert to electronic ignition...

* * *NOTE: If you have a with Marelli S145C, or S145CX distributor with a 25mm points cam - neither the Pertronix MR-LS1 or MR-LS3 kits will fit your dizzy. Pertronix do not have a kit to suit.

Having said that, it would have been a piece of cake to make the MR-LS3 fit...
The MR-LS3 a Lobe Sensor trigger, so it doesn't need a plastic collar with magnets. It detects the cam lobes as they pass the trigger.
All it needs is an adaptor plate that allows it to attach to the body of the dizzy via the same holes that the points would use. It was immediately obvious upon removing the Ignitor from the packaging that the supplied adaptor plate wasn't going to fit. In fact, it wasn't even close.

It was very tempting to discard the supplied adaptor plate altogether and make my own. All it would have taken would be to cut a piece of 4mm thick aluminium plate to the same shape as the base of the points set, drill four holes in it - two to mount the Pertronix trigger to the plate, and two to attach the whole shebang to the dizzy. Making sure one of the mounting holes is elongated to allow for clearance gap adjustment (between the trigger and the cam lobes), and countersinking the two holes used the mount the trigger to the plate - so as to allow the plate to attach to the dizzy nice and flush. Or you could just use spacers I guess, but the trigger may sit a little too high in that case.

As you can see, I was VERY tempted. I even drew up the template on cardboard, and cut it out to test the fit. If I had actually had some Alloy plate in the workshop, I have little doubt my GTV would be running on an electronic ignition by now. Unfortunately, if I make my own plate it will void my warranty. And besides, for the price of the Pertronix kit (USD99.00 including postage) I think it's reasonable to expect it to fit straight out of the box.
So I have opted to send it back for a refund.

As a result I've given up on converting the Marelli to electronic, and have decided to swap my Marelli distributor with a spare Bosch distributor that I have obtained from the wreck of a Berlina. There seems to be no shortage of kits for the Bosch dizzies. Pertronix have an Ignitor to fit pretty much any Bosch distributor which uses one-piece points. But, just to be different I have decided to try another manufacturer that makes a product very similar to the Pertronix kit called Hot Spark, see www.hot-spark.com . The unit seems almost identical to the Pertronix, but the best bit is that it's about a third of the price for the equivalent Pertronix unit.

Will let you know how I go. Fingers crossed.

[Alfajay]

Wow, that hot-spark thing seems like an awfully good value! At $40 it's half the price of a Pertronix, and the Pertronix seemed reasonably priced compared with a Crane or other "external box" kit.

My Alfa has a distributor not shown on Hot-Spark or Pertronix application lists - it's a JFR4 0231 129 036. Anybody ever heard of that # (the Pertronix tech support came up empty). I believe it is off a mid-60's Sprint GT. It has an aluminum body, takes one-piece points, and the center-to-center spacing between the lug and slot on the points is 28mm. My guess is that Hot-Spark's p/n BOS4V1 will fit it.

Given that my '65 Sprint won't be on the road for some time, I'll wait to hear how Colin P makes out with his Hot-Spark.

One other question: What sort of a coil has > 3.2 ohms of resistance? Would a Bosch blue coil? Yea I know, I could hook up an ohmmeter, and just measure it. But, my meter doesn't have a range that low.

[CarlosSpider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfajay One other question: What sort of a coil has > 3.2 ohms of resistance? Would a Bosch blue coil? Yea I know, I could hook up an ohmmeter, and just measure it. But, my meter doesn't have a range that low.

[fabcrab]

I put one of these in my Alfetta, and it works a charm, tho mine was a bosch dissie, spark is allot stronger

[Colin P]

Fabcrab,

You put in a Hot Spark kit, or a Pertronix?

Would you happen to know your dizzy model # and the kit # that suits?

What are your impressions?

-Col-

[fabcrab]

was a pertronix kit, i can get my dissie number and the kit number if youd like

[Colin P]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfajay My Alfa has a distributor not shown on Hot-Spark or Pertronix application lists - it's a JFR4 0231 129 036. Anybody ever heard of that # (the Pertronix tech support came up empty). I believe it is off a mid-60's Sprint GT. It has an aluminum body, takes one-piece points, and the center-to-center spacing between the lug and slot on the points is 28mm. My guess is that Hot-Spark's p/n BOS4V1 will fit it.

[Alfajay]

Colin:

That chap was indeed me. I asked both Pertronix and H-S's tech support people which of their parts would fit my 0231 129 036 Bosch distributor. I have to say that H-S gave the more useful answer - they said that either of their two models would fit. How do the two differ? Well, the pictures on the H-S website sort of show how each of them mounts - the blue "brain box" is obviously the same, but the bracketry that attaches it to the distributor plate differs.

My reply from Pertronix was less useful - even though I told them that the one-piece points mount with two holes on 28mm centers, the response was "we don't have 0231 129 036 in our catalog, so you are out of luck". Sort of like when you go to a generic auto parts store in the States, and ask for anything to fit an Alfa Romeo (which haven't been imported here since 1995) - if the chick behind the counter can't find it in her database, then it can't be done - even if all you need is an 8mm bolt.

[fabcrab]

I got my pertronix kit from a distributor here in New zealand, what a bloody helpful chap he was, my dissie wasnt listed, so he asked what style points and rotor and cap fitted, and sent me a kit and it fitted perfectly, he came up with 2 possibilities and was happy for me to try both, ill post my dissie number and kit number once i get a chance to

[Colin P]

Hehehe, we have the same problem here of course Jay. So I know the feeling.

Recently I was calling around looking for two things... tyres, and ignition leads.
The first question that is always asked is a fair one - "what kind of car is it for?".
Naturally though, there is just silence and/or blank looks when I say a 1967 Alfa Romeo (I don't even bother saying the model name - Giulia Sprint GT veloce - I don't want to risk straining their fragile wee minds )

Even though both of these products are pretty much generic, and I know the specs/measurements I need (at least, I do in this case) it's amazing how easily some retailers give up and seemingly try to push the business off elsewhere.

For example: I was searching for a set of 185/65/14 tyres... and that's exactly what I asked for. This was commonly met with the predictable and fair question about make/model/year etc;
One response stands out though. Unbelievably, when he couldn't find my car in his catalogue, the guy at the local Good Year tyre centre told me I should call Alfa Romeo and make sure that I'm ordering the correct size tyres for my car.

Even though I pointed out that I was simply asking for replacements of the same size tyre that is fitted currently, and even invited him to go outside and read the numbers off the sidewall himself. I was given some long-winded explanation about original being best.
They're tyres, it's not rocket science!

I'd hate to think of the reaction that this guy would have to the teenagers in their rice-racers with the very non-stock 19 inch plus wheels that are the trend atm and I'm sure a big money-spinner for tyre stores.

I bought my Bridgestones from K-Mart in the end, where the guy asked for the size, gave me a price, rolled my car onto a hoist and fitted them.

Anyhoo, back on topic...
I'll let you know how I go with the Hot-Spark kit Jay.
It's not so straight forward for me though, as I'm trying to mate it with a Crane Hi-6 and LX92 coil. Mating it with the HI-6 is easy, the coil however is super low resistance of only 0.23 Ohms, so my choice is to either insert a couple of 1.6 Ohm ballast resistors (which would defy the point of the low-resistance coil) or to use a different coil with 3.2 Ohms resistance. Only problem is I'm not sure about which coil will be able perform sufficiently to keep up with the multi-spark HI-6 box. (any suggestions from the AlfaBB brains trust quite welcome)
I have a Bosch GT40 coil here. It's got exactly 3.2 Ohms resistance, so I'll give that a shot first I think. Hopefully it will be able to handle the extra load.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabcrab ...my dissie wasnt listed, so he asked what style points and rotor and cap fitted

[Colin P]

Jay,

I got the Hot-Spark kit. The good news is that it fits and it runs.

A word of advice though - consider getting the "V" kit. The "C" kit fits our dizzy, but I had to modify the base plate ever so slightly to get it to do so.
Even though all of this took me less than five minutes it's hard to explain, so I've attached a photo to visually demonstrate all of this. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

On our particular distributor model one of the mounting brackets that secures the breaker points plate to the distributor body is in just the wrong place.

This mounting bracket just barely touched the very end of the bottom alloy plate of the Hot Spark unit. This caused the mounting holes in the Hot Spark alloy plate to be misaligned by about 1mm with the matching holes in the breaker Points plate.

My solution to this was to very gently file about 1mm of metal from the edge of the bottom alloy plate over a length of about 8-10mm, allowing enough clearance for hole in the Hot Spark unit to align with the hole in the breaker plate perfectly.

But then, even though the peg and the hole now aligned perfectly with the holes in the Breaker Plate (as the traditional breaker points would), when I installed the magnet sleeve over the distributor shaft, I found that the sleeve rubbed ever so slightly against the inside edge of the bottom alloy plate on the opposite side.

My solution to this was to again very gently file a little metal from the edge of the bottom alloy plate. This time though, I only needed to remove the barest sliver - about 0.5mm - just enough to prevent rubbing and to provide a little clearance, over a length of about 10-15mm.

I checked with the supplier and was advised these mods haven't affected my warranty, phew. They advised that the BOS4V1 kit has a smaller footprint, so wouldn't need these modifications to allow the required clearance. In the end both kits fit. Both require a little adjustment. Choose whichever you're comfortable with.

I'm not complaining though. It's probably the easiest job I've ever performed on this car, and I'm very happy to finally have an electronic ignition kit that fits, plus I think these kits are excellent value!

As to how it runs, I've only had time to pull the distributor out, fit the kit and put the dizzy back in. The first good sign was that the cold engine started straight away in the middle of winter, and did so each and every time I turned the key. There's definitely a change in the sound of the engine. It still sounds very Alfa, but it's got a deeper, "meatier" sound to it now as well

As you would expect it throws the timing off a little compared to the original setup, so there's a little snap, crackle n' pop at higher revs at the moment. I won't have a chance to correctly adjust the timing until next week. I'm not driving it in the meantime, so that's ok.

Cheers,

-Col-

[Colin P]

And then...
Beats me how I didn't find this post earlier, as I searched everywhere.
Anyway, apparently I was correct about the Pertronix 1847 kit fitting this dizzy (and no doubt any other Bosch dizzy that uses single piece points), but it also requires a modification to the base plate to fit the 036 due to the same problem.
So I guess the Hot-Spark kit and the Pertronix kit must be almost identical - except for the price

Interestingly, despite Pertronix telling me otherwise there appears to be a compatible Ignitor II - 91847A - which incidentally also requires the same modification to the baseplate.
As a bonus, the Ignitor II seems to be able to cope with low resistance coils, which would make it theoretically compatible with my LX92 coil. Bugger I didn't find this out two weeks ago