'71 Spider wipers - Page 3

**papajam** · #31 (**permalink**) 10-12-2003, 03:05 PM

Oops. Here's the pic.

**Farace** · #32 (**permalink**) 10-12-2003, 03:27 PM

The connector is hard to see, but he did tell me that it's four-wire.

My car is # 1486197, so it's well within the four-wire range.

I see a significant difference between the motor on eBay and the one you are showing, Jim, in the way the three "struts" that attach to the mounting plate is configured. The one that you show has two of the struts facing the camera; the one on eBay has one on the camera side (and it's a similar angle). Mine more closely resembles the one on eBay. Also, the butt end of the electric motor part of yours has a removeable end cap. Mine doesn't, and it seems that neither does the one on eBay. I can't tell if mine is exactly like the one on eBay (mine certainly has more grease).

I guess the bottom line question is whether the one on eBay is close enough. How different could they be? Even if the connector end is different, I could make them the same by swapping either the connectors or the whole harness. But might there be something else? The listing does say it's for GT and Spider '67-'72, but that doesn't make sense if halfway through '71 they switched from three wires to four. I'm tempted to chance it, hoping it's exactly right and figuring I can make it right if it isn't, but if anyone has any input on that, let me know . . .

**papajam** · #33 (**permalink**) 10-12-2003, 04:03 PM

My intent with the pic was to show the 3 wire connector on a 68 GTV wiper motor in about the same position as the pic in the ad. It just looked like to me that the ebay motor may have a 3 wire connector. I did not mean it as a comparison of the motors themselves. The GTV wiper motor has an altogether different part number and would be different anyway (the wiper transmissions are completely different).
I don't see the wiring as being an issue - as you said, the wires could be swapped in the connector. I recall in another thread though that someone had to modify the mounting slightly because the length of shaft was different.
I'd have to say that since there were at least three different wiper motors used from 67-72, don't be suprised if some mods are required to make it fit.
Good luck!

**Farace** · #34 (**permalink**) 10-12-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by papajam
I did not mean it as a comparison of the motors themselves.

BeigeAlfa · #35 (**permalink**) 10-13-2003, 02:43 AM

If you get desperate, these are available in the uk. Both Alfaholics.com and highwoodalfa.com supply them. 80 pounds plus carriage.

As you've noticed, this is a standard Bosche part - it was fitted to plenty of cars in europe for a long, long time. Have you tried a German car breakers???

Dan.

**Farace** · #36 (**permalink**) 10-13-2003, 07:06 AM

Thanks for the tips, Dan. I was the high (err, only) bidder for the auction on eBay so hopefully I'll have that motor here before long. I felt better going with a rebuilt unit than one pulled out of a parts car just because I'd be a bit nervous that I'd be getting something like I'm trying to replace.

**fgc** · #37 (**permalink**) 10-14-2003, 01:30 AM

Hi Farace

About the wiper motor, so long as the 3 mounting holes line up to the motor's 3 mounts it should be useable, if not (I dont know how you feel about this but) just enlarge the mounting holes a little to accomodate. Mine required just a little enlarging.

Regarding the mounts on the motor, when the motor is mounted, check that the splined shaft does pertrude enough so that the mounting plate has enough clearence otherwise, when the nylon sockets "ball-joint" that holds the wiper actuating arms gives way due to age, the resulting downward (gravity) slop will not interfer with the shaft... ie get as much daylight as you can between all moving parts. otherwise, you might be looking at another motor/switches etc if it should bind.

Oh, speaking of the amount of rust, please do not forget to try and rotate the 2 shafts where the wiper arms are attached to. this is often overlooked. Mine was rusted solid which then blew the motor (somehow it wasn't fused!!!) Had to remove the c-clip holding the shaft in place and hammer out the shaft and polish and regrease it and put it back. otherwise, you know the drill.... new motor/switches etc all over again. It should be free and really easy to rotate. I did this instead of buying a spare set off ebay etc bec my 67 duetto uses the long shaft version which I wasn't sure if it was interchangable with the later spiders. In any event, your spider uses the later type where spares should be easier to get say on ebay.

Sad to say, the wiper took me a bit of time to sort out but finally I did and I am happy to report that it is probably working properly for the first time in many years. By the look of the thing, the PO of my duetto was probably driving without wipers for months on end if not longer.

Oh, I finally figured out the way to wire the motor whether it is 3 or 4 wires. Now it parks and runs. One more thing, NONE of the 4 wires coming out connects to ground. Ground is taken off the frame. Please check that your 4 wires motor does not have a ground to the wiper park circuit!!! Very Important - I had to disable mine because otherwise, it will short circuit the whole works!!!

- a bit difficult to explain but if you test it with your multimeter on continuity, you will see that the park is connected to the ground probably via a ground wire. open up the back plate and have alook at the "circuit" inside and you will see a round plate connected to the shaft. The spring tabs senses the position of the shaft via a very simple circular circuit. One circle has no break and another has a break. The one with the break I connect to +12 and the one without the break I connect to No 7 of the switch. Check that there is no 3rd circuit within the round plate be it a smaller circular connection or a tab. This may be wired to the ground which must be disabled bec I think this is used for the later "pulse" type wiper circuits which our earlier cars dont use.

If you look at the switch, each copper tab is numbered and I wired up mine in the following way:

No 1 = wire to foot pump or other means to pulse the motor
No 4 = +12 - fuse
No 6 = slow wire - to motor (colour varies)
No 8 = fast wire - to motor (colour varies)
No 7 = park - to motor (colour varies)

One more wire from the motor to be connected to +12 (which i joint to No 4 on the switch)

This wire and No 7 wire are the ones that help the motor to park.

Please double check your work and all wiring. With some simple understanding of ciruitry, you get sort this out but please please be very careful and double check everything and fuse everything too with a proper rated fuse because a short circuit can cause a fire and then it will be motor/switch/and a new car.

Err how different is the above from the wiring diagrams? I am not sure but after reviewing so many different wiring diagrames and trying to figure out the numbers on the diagrams with the switches and getting all confused, I opened up the motor and I figured that the above is one of the way I could wire up all the function. If anyone has any comments or improvements on the wiring methods, I will gladly welcome inputs.

Finally... phew

is it all worth it... err it is difficult to say, since where I live, parts and technical help are difficult to come by so I have to learn everything myself and from all the books I can get my hands on and also since I am virtually rebuilding the whole car, it is part of the process. I hope you have better luck and an easier time sorting this out than I did.

Wow this is one heck of a long post!

fgc

**Farace** · #38 (**permalink**) 10-14-2003, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fgc
Wow this is one heck of a long post!

fgc

**Farace** · #39 (**permalink**) 10-16-2003, 08:55 AM

The wiper motor arrived today, and a quick comparison shows the same color wires going to the same positions on the same type of four-terminal connector. There are some very slight and unimportant differences in the gearbox casting and motor case. I can see that the drive shaft is, in fact, slightly shorter than the original. Tonight after work I'll have a closer look at it and see if it makes a difference. I'll also determine if it's the shaft that's shorter or the casting that's longer. Hopefully tonight I'll finally have working wipers!

**Farace** · #40 (**permalink**) 10-16-2003, 08:32 PM

I'm happy to report that I now have working wipers, both from the console switch and the footswitch. Thanks to everyone that helped.

While it appeared at first that the drive shaft was shorter than that on my old motor, it was only because there was a plastic cap over the end of the casting where the shaft protrudes from. I left the cap in place and had no trouble attaching the wiper linkage to it.

The wipers are kind of slow, aren't they? They almost reminded me of, but aren't nearly as bad as, the vacuum-powered wipers on the '29 Model A my dad had when I was in college. Maybe it's partly because they're so short; they'd certainly get more "whip" to them if they were twice as long.

**Roadtrip** · #41 (**permalink**) 10-16-2003, 10:21 PM

Bob - Did you make sure that the motor gears were greased up properly? Are you getting both low and high speeds?

**Farace** · #42 (**permalink**) 10-17-2003, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roadtrip
Bob - Did you make sure that the motor gears were greased up properly? Are you getting both low and high speeds?

**Roadtrip** · #43 (**permalink**) 10-17-2003, 10:43 AM

I didn't catch the fresh rebuild part. In that case I'm sure it was regreased. You're absolutely correct in assuming that the Alfa wipers, even on "Hi", aren't really fast. Since I don't don't drive in the rain, I make it a point to exercise the wipers whenever I wash the car . . . get that motor good and warm. Same with the heater motor. I make it a point to run it for a while whenever I drive the car.

**Farace** · #44 (**permalink**) 10-17-2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roadtrip
Same with the heater motor. I make it a point to run it for a while whenever I drive the car.

**Roadtrip** · #45 (**permalink**) 10-17-2003, 12:09 PM

All the switches should be "off" with the rockers in the down position.

CORRECTION CORRECTION CORRECTION:

Sorry about that. Keyboard dyslexia again. In the OFF position rockers are in the UP position. Just look on the wiper switch and you'll see the symbol.