OMG What have I done?

**DavidB** · #1 (**permalink**) 09-15-2003, 03:20 PM

I was changing the fan belt on my new (to me) 79 Spider which I figured was a piece of cake since the P/O had removed the smog pump when he installed euro headers. Wrong I was. I now don't seem to have power anywhere in the car - either switched or unswitched (e.g. ER flashers, horn). I figured I left something on or something and had run the battery down. That doesn't seem to be the case as jump starting didn't do the trick. The multimeter shows the right volts and amps at the battery (I know - it's not under load so that is not reliable but I thought I'd get something somewhere that only wanted a trickle). Have I shorted something out by moving the alternator to get the fan belt changed?

I'll learn someday to leave things to the smarter folks,

David

**Toptick** · #2 (**permalink**) 09-15-2003, 05:51 PM

I had a very similar problem, although it didn't start by changing the alternater belt. Read the post a little farther down called "Perplexing Power Problem". The advice on checking the gounds with a jumper cable made me realize that a good looking ground connection can be as bad as a really ugly one. I suspect that you have a bad connection that was awakened from a dormant state by disturbing the gremlins under the hood. Use the info from Papajam, Roadtrip et. al. to boot the little gremmies in the A$$ & away from your car!

It worked for me.

Art

**Roadtrip** · #3 (**permalink**) 09-15-2003, 06:06 PM

Repeat after me . . . . .

"From now on whenever I work on my engine or electrical system, I will disconnect the negative battery cable unless I am testing something."

That said, check:

1. The 3 prong connector pushed all the way into the alternator.
2. The 3 prong connector pushed all the way into the voltage regulator, front left edge of engine compartment.
3. Large wire tightly attached to large stud on back of alternator.
4. Battery cables clean and tight on connections.
5. Battery ground cable clean and tight on body connection.
6. Check fusebox (left driver's knee under dash) for blown fuses.
7. Check main battery cable clean and tight on the starter motor.

Did you take the alternator completely off? I wouldn't think so if you just did a belt change. Did you see or hear any sparks . . . . like you inadvertantly touched the red cable to a ground source?

**DavidB** · #4 (**permalink**) 09-16-2003, 05:11 AM

"From now on whenever I work on my engine or electrical system, I WILL disconnect the negative battery cable unless I am testing something."

I think I tried everything except the battery cable to starter. What's the best way to get to that? From underneath or from the top (looks like the SPICA air box has to be removed). If it's the cable to the starter that might explain the problem I have occasionally to the starter not kicking in after driving and parking. I was blaming the ignition switch for that.

I didn't take the alternator off - just loosened and pivoted it. I don't remember sparking anything while doing that.

But I will re-check everything again and follow papajam's thread.

Thanks,

David

**Sniady** · #5 (**permalink**) 09-16-2003, 10:30 PM

Hmmm, a bad connection, defective ignition switch (like you said) or your solenoid. It might be the solenoid, and i think it would probably be the hold-in winding.

**Roadtrip** · #6 (**permalink**) 09-16-2003, 11:55 PM

David -

I don't think you did anything to it by changing the fan belt. Probably was something ready to go anyway and just coincidence.

Yea, you'll have to take the SPICA airbox off to get to the starter battery connection and solenoid. While you have it off you might as well check all the other electrical connections you can find down there like:

1. Fuel low pressure sensor
2. Cold Start solenoid
3. Fuel Cutoff solenoid
4. Oil pressure sending unit
5. Wire spade connection to the fuel cutoff microswitch under the FI pump.
6. Small wire connections to the starter solenoid.

I'd remove the battery cable from the starter solenoid and wire brush it shiny. Also clean the stud it attaches to, then snug it down good. Don't overtighten or you might break the solenoid.

I keep a can of that CRC electrical cleaner spray handy in order to clean connections as I go. With these cars being so old and probably not well taken care of, corrosion is always a problem. I even use a small dremel tool with a small wire brush attachment to brush spade terminals clean and shiny. Dielectric grease is also good for insulating connections and preventing future corrosion.

. . . . . and what were we going to do before we try to clean and tighten any electrical component? . . . especially one with a big fat, high current cable running to the battery? Inadvertantly ground that bad-boy and you're going to get your first lesson in arc welding.

**Toptick** · #7 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 05:20 AM

David:
Are all the electrics in the car still dead? If so, I would try using a jumper cable to "bypass" your battery cables to see where the problem lies. First run a jumper from the negative post on the battery to a solid part of the engine. Then test to see if anything works (try something low draw like the blinkers). If that gives no result, try jumping the positive battery post to the alternator stud on the terminal block (be careful not to ground it or you will get RT's arc welding lesson). These steps will hopefully let you know if the fault lies in the cabling and/or the grounds.

It is always a good idea to clean up all the connections, because electrical connectivity problems are the bane of proper electrical function.

Art

**DavidB** · #8 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 05:20 PM

Art,

since I'm now gun-shy, can you explain what you meant by the alternator stud on the terminal block?

Thanks,
David

**papajam** · #9 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 05:51 PM

Just looked at a wiring diagram and it shows a junction (somewhere in the engine bay) with three 10ga red wires; one each from the alternator and starter and the third as the power feed for the entire car. Given the close proximity of the connector to the alternator(at lease in the diagram), maybe it was accidently disturbed when the belt was changed.
Is this the terminal block you're talking about, Art? And where is it? Left inner fender?

**Toptick** · #10 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 08:01 PM

Yes, that's the terminal I was talking about. Bunch of red wires. On my '86, it is on the inside left fender, covered by a square flat black plastic cover. Squeeze the latches on the sides & pop the cover off. Jump this stud to the positive terminal of the battery to "bypass" the positive battery cable.

Art

**DavidB** · #11 (**permalink**) 09-19-2003, 11:27 AM

I know what you're describing - Thanks everyone,

David

**DavidB** · #12 (**permalink**) 09-19-2003, 04:59 PM

Thanks, everyone for your suggestions. I have full power again - just in time for a great weekend.

David

GTV-A · #13 (**permalink**) 09-20-2003, 03:12 PM

Dave,

Glad your Spider has got full power again...
so what was the gremlin¿

ciao
Paul.

**DavidB** · #14 (**permalink**) 09-21-2003, 06:29 AM

I'm not 100% sure because I cleaned and re-seated the connections at the solenoid and did the same at the connector on the left fender where the power running from from the solenoid junction connects with the alternator wire and the line that runs back to inside the care (fuse box?). Being that the connector is on the left fender, I could have disturbed it when monkeying with the alternator. But also, I haven't had the intermittent starting problem I was having earlier so it could have been the solenoid connections also.