Universal Ignition Switch

jrg · #1 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 07:29 PM

Hello all, just joined the forum. I will be bringing a 1983 alfa romeo spider 2000project down this Saturday. The previous owner did not have an ignition key and had been using a screwdriver to try to work out the wiring mess that is currently their.

I did get a wiring diagram from papajam--amazing work.

Question is I have a universal switch that I would like to use, in place of the scewdriver

until i can sort out the wiring, The connections on the switch show batt, ign, and acc. their is a forth connection without anything on it. How can I wire this up until I can start ordering a new switch along with everything else I might need?

thanks in advance.

J.R.

**ghnl** · #2 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 09:27 PM

Hello & welcome.

See if the snips below (from the Alfa Shop Manual & PapaJam's wire diagram) are helpful..

**papajam** · #3 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 06:29 AM

My take is the connections on the universal switch are;

Batt - red wire (terminal #30 on the diagram)
Ign - brown wire (#15/54 on the diagram)
Unmarked - black wire (#50 on the diagram)
Acc. - not used

bianchi1 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-09-2009, 12:55 PM

papa , could you? me make the ***. part of the switch work?

jrg · #5 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 07:46 AM

thanks papajam, the connections were able to get the switch to work, but where does the green wire connect or does it?

At this point I have power to the coil when the ignition switch is on, but no spark, is this related to the green wire being unconnected?

**papajam** · #6 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 04:42 PM

Green wire? Where exactly is this wire? Was it on the old ignition switch?

That's good that there is battery voltage at the coil with the key on. I assume then that the dash gauges & dash lights work with the key and that the starter engages?

Please try this test. Check the voltage at the coil + terminal while the starter is engaged (engine cranking). What is the voltage?

jrg · #7 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 08:16 PM

yes the green wire is from the old switch. I did cut the black, red, brown, and green wire from the old switch, then terminaled them into the new switch. I then reconnected the "new wiring" into the old connection on the steering column.

On the new universal switch, the ign (brown) and batt (red) terminals light up with a test light while the non marked terminal (black) does not light up. The acc terminal lights up without anything tied into it. Should it have power?

The dash lights and gauge lights are not lit, but the starter engages.

I will check the reading on the + side of the terminal with a digital meter.

It is lighting up with a test light on the + side with the key turned on, I did check the - terminal while cranking and the test lamp brightens and dims in between cranks.

jrg · #8 (**permalink**) 05-21-2009, 05:40 PM

checked voltage while cranking drops to 10 volts!

**papajam** · #9 (**permalink**) 05-22-2009, 06:23 PM

Okay. Getting 10 volts is both good and potentially bad. The good is that it proves the ignition terminal on the universal switch is not dropping out during cranking. The potential bad thing is that 10 volts is below the minimum voltage required for the fuel and ignition computers to function (hence no spark or injected fuel).
What is the voltage at the battery during cranking? If it's the same as the coil voltage (10V), it means 1) there is no voltage drop between the battery and the coil (this is a good thing) and 2) the battery needs to be charged (about 10.5V required during cranking for the computers to work). If there is 10.5V or more at the battery during cranking, then there is a voltage drop (dirty/loose connection) in a power feed circuit. A common suspect here is the junction block on the left inner fender.

On the green wire; according to the wiring diagrams, this wire was last used in 1979 for the ignition coil ballast resistor bypass circuit. Where the wires from the ignition switch connect to the 'old connection at the steering column', is there a green wire on both sides of this connector? And on which ignition switch terminal is this green wire now connected?

Let me ask again a previous question worded a bit differently. When the key is turned on, do any of the warning lights on the dash come on? (alternator, oil, brake, seatbelt, etc.)

jrg · #10 (**permalink**) 05-22-2009, 08:00 PM

Thanks for the followup, every day it seems as if the next move will get this baby going, appreciate the advice.

I checked the wiring mess, apparently there was some sort of after alarm.

I disconnected all wires that went to the alarm, used a dremel to clean the fuses, replaced all fuses and turn the key, I now have dash lights, gauge lights, headlights, flashers. the battery light and oil light are coming on, but the oil light turns off when cranking. The battery light stays on.

I checked where the green wire, it plugs into the switch on one side, the other side of the switch shows nothing.

I will check the firewall junction box and cranking next.

jrg · #11 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 07:43 PM

I checked both Flywheel sensors tonite after checking the link on the LJetronic page. Both sensors look bad, I say look bad, because when I checked ohms there was nothing on either. Looks like I will order both and see what happens.

jrg · #12 (**permalink**) 05-30-2009, 08:24 PM

Still working with this, since I am tracking down wires in this 83 spider, I saw I have a black/red wire in the engine bay with no place to go. I was going to check on starter as well and pulled my plenum out. This black/red wire goes to the oil pressure switch. But when I pulled the plenum out, there was a heavy duty brown gauge wire with a ring terminal on the 17mm bolt. The other side of the wire had a ring terminal tied into the lower bolt of the valve cover located at the front of the passenger side. I cant see how that sets a ground for anything, is it maybe a leftover wire from the ac or is it normal?

By the way, the starter is bad according to autozone, I plan on taking it in for a rebuild. Strange how it seemed to be turning the engine, the voltage from the battery was 11. 46 and dropped down to 6 or 7 when cranking. I would check voltage after, and the battery was still at 11.46. Headlights would come on, but when I would crank it, the headlights would dim. Both cables were getting hot, so that is why i decided to remove the starter for testing.

It did not have any shoulder bolt, only a 9/16 bolt going thru the top to secure it.

I still plan on ordering the flywheel sensors, hopefully I will get this thing going soon.

jrg · #13 (**permalink**) 08-01-2009, 05:52 PM

Okay, still staying with this.

1983 Spider

Universal switch is hooked up. Red to Battery, Brown to Ignition, Black to Unmarked. Green tucked away.

Battery showing 12.45 Volts, during cranking drops to below 10, checked pins on the Ignition ECU, + 4 pin and - 5 pin shows voltage during cranking as below 10 as well.

I understand this is what is keeping the ECU from waking up, but is my short or open circuit going to be from the fuse box back to the ECU? Where should I start looking?

Simon Saivil · #14 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 11:10 AM

This is the beast that has been thoroughly discussed in relation to its magnet sensor and RML Performance Ignition, that saved the day, the car, and me from going crazy.

The car was sold to me with the information that it could not hold the charge. I found a broken and jammed starter, attributing the power drainage to that.

The car now runs, but the ignition switch tends to jam. As of last Friday the fuel pump, which is new, keeps running as it chooses. It has a mind of its own. It comes on, sometimes, with a key out, and it turns itself off as I turn the ignition to "on." Sometimes turning the key off shuts it off.

Nick Vadala of London Automotive Service thinks that I have a bad fuel pump relay, which is plausible, as there was some flooding and water in that general area.

Tom of International Auto Parts thinks that it is not a relay but rather an ignition switch. Normally, with the key out, the relay to the fuel pum should have no power. The fact that it runs, with a key out, indicates that it's getting power from somewhere. Consequently he believes that the ignition switch is bad.

Tom also tells me that there are two types of switches, and the only way to tell which one is the right one to buy is to take the old one out and see which of the two it is.

Does anyone have a temporary fix for this?

Thanks,

Simon

**Tifosi** · #15 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 11:26 AM

Yes, there are two types of switches.

85 back to 82 is the short barrel type, 86 and up is the long barrely type.
The wiring harness on them differs too, so one could look at what one had for plugs down under the dash and make the comparison that way.

Regarding the pump relay:
It can stay on without the key being present once the contact points start to get pitted and finally fuse together as a result of the arcing created by the tachymetric pulse. (they spark and flash just like ignition points do, but the contacts are WAY littler and thus that much easier to cook)

The battery is what powers the relay and the pumps via the relay, the coil is what sends a signal to the relay to turn it on, and the key turns on the coil.

If the contacts inside the relay fry together, then the coil is no longer needed for it's trigger signal and the pumps will run continously until you bash the cargo shelf over top of the relay with the flat of your hand to hopefully shake the more or less spot welded contacts apart.

Ask me how I know.....